Shoot N Scoot issues

[Blah Blah Blah]

I have not been having fun with this order for 2 reasons.

Playing 'Clash of Titans' tank battle, Italian's versus British.

First is that with the deert terrain it can be very hard to tell how far to go forward before you get too far forward, and thus nailed.

Secondly, the enemy AI instantly zoom in on your tank. I will need to test this further to see if it is the amount of dust been thrown up or.....

The amount of dust that gets thrown up for the 10 metre dash is quit large, and seems unrealistic for the short run up phase.

I would like to suggest, that the 'shoot n scoot' order should embrace the 'engage enemy' order, so 'shoot n scoot' to point a unless you encounter the enemy then shoot from there and then scoot.

Help, advice, input all appreciated.

[wcat]

I agree, 1st op in a shoot & scoot is a MOVE order, it should be a Hunt order IMHO.

[Blanar]

The problem is there is no command that does what we'd like it to do with the shoot-n-scoot. A move command actually works best. It moves to that spot, stops, shoots, and reverses. A hunt command would move forward, see the enemy, stop and shoot (on a two gun tank, one of the guns may not even be clear to fire yet), it would lose LOS due to dust continue forward to the end of the hunt command, possibly shooting the entire way and then finally reverse. This would lead to a much greater exposure.

I thought actually the first half of shot-n-scoot was a fast move? You want to get to that spot as quick as possible and then get the heck out. This would lead to a bigger dust cloud than just creeping into position.

Myself,I've had good luck with the command and when it works correctly it is a thing of beauty. Of course, I've also had all of my first shots miss and every enemy first shot hit.

Later,

Carl

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Blanar:

I thought actually the first half of shot-n-scoot was a fast move?

It is.

Michael

[Redwolf]

All these hacks are no replacement for even simple SOP settings.

[archi]

redwolf what game is that tacops?

[Michael Emrys]

I'm not redwolf, but I can answer that: yep.

You can download a demo for it from this site.

Michael

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by Blah Blah Blah:

I would like to suggest, that the 'shoot n scoot' order should embrace the 'engage enemy' order, so 'shoot n scoot' to point a unless you encounter the enemy then shoot from there and then scoot.

Help, advice, input all appreciated.

A much more effective work around is to issue a 'move to contact' with a delay, so that it begins to move with only 5-10 seconds left in the turn. If it encounters an enemy unit it will stop automatically to engage, and most likely will do so from a hull down position. If not it will continue until it reaches its destination, but the delay means it will only be exposed for a few seconds in that turn. When the next turn begins you issue a reverse order and scoot him back into cover. If done correctly it should only be exposed for 10 seconds tops (5 each turn)

[Redwolf]

The core of the problem is that you need the most important SOP: stop on contact. It makes no sense to continue the initial drive after you spotted the enemy.

In SOP-less CM some minimal SOP is done by the introduction of ever new commands. It has been done for two: hunt (a variant of fast but less fast) and move-contact (a variant of move), but all commands should have a variant that stops them on contact, and as said shoot-and-scoot is the primaray candidate.

That is why you need seperate SOPs, if you continue to introduce new hardcoded standalone commands you end up with dozends or hundreds of commands.

[Entrecote]

my tactic for using scoot`n`shoot was :

use the LOS tool, placing it on the enemy, and scanning the area around it, to determine what terrain is blocking my LOS to the target.

(assuming the LOS is a bore sighted tool)

this should indicate to you the effects of the terrain (blockages) on your bore sight.

i then just place the scoot section of the command where i guesstimated the divider between the red/black sections of the LOS info.

(i guess you could switch to target mode to measure the distance, then match that distance with the scoot section, but rough is probably good enough)

set the second waypoint back into your covered position (you are in cover arent you?), and bobs your uncle, a sneaky peek.

i noticed this tactic wasnt so hot vs armour on the move, but when you get a chance of a side shot in a slug out, or a nice flank vs a reserve, it seems to work quite well.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Entrecote:

my tactic for using scoot`n`shoot was :

use the LOS tool, placing it on the enemy, and scanning the area around it, to determine what terrain is blocking my LOS to the target.

(assuming the LOS is a bore sighted tool)

this should indicate to you the effects of the terrain (blockages) on your bore sight.

i then just place the scoot section of the command where i guesstimated the divider between the red/black sections of the LOS info.

This is what I've done as well. But truth to tell, I haven't used that command very much aside from playing around with it a bit when CMBB first came out.

Michael