matilda

[laxx]

Does anyone else feel that the matilda tank is quite a super tank, at least in the early years, like a kv-2 or t-34 tank ?

my PzIII 50mm can't penetrate easily. A Platoon of Matildas are quite deadly indeed.

ps. sorry if this has been discussed previously.

[Soddball]

An example of the strength of the tank was shown in an action at Pabu Hill near Sattleberg (NB: There is a fine sculpture of a Matilda, titled "The Sattleberg Tank" in the Museum). On this occasion, a tank assisting the infantry was engaged and disabled at a range of less than 50 meters, by a Japanese 37 mm gun. Later a 75 mm gun, anti-tank mines and grenades were used against the tank. Although it was hit more than 50 times, the crew continued to fight the vehicle until its ammunition had been expended. They then managed to escape from the vehicle and return to it the following day. It was subsequently repaired and put back into action one day later.

( Source )

In 1941-1942 "Matilda" was the invulnerable to any German tanks and AT-guns except their heavy 88 mm AA-guns.

( Source )

The Matilda is the first British attempt to build a tank specialized in infantry support. By sacrificizing speed, the idea was to get a well-proected machine advancing at the pace of walking men.

The first model, the Matilda I, was a failure. The next models in contrasts were able to maintain invulnerability to enemy antitank fire for almost two years (except for the German 88 mm gun). It played a major role in the Desert War until the end of 1941.

( Source )

It has been discussed before - the Matilda is a hugely armoured terror which is hard to knock out. Use 88 Flaks or retreat.

[Michael Emrys]

Too bad they couldn't fit a proper gun to it. Oh well, I suppose that's what Churchills were for.

Michael

[Soddball]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

Too bad they couldn't fit a proper gun to it. Oh well, I suppose that's what Churchills were for.

Michael

Some of those sites talk about a 3" close support version and a late-war flamethrower version called a Frog. They sound like fun. :mad: :mad:

[von Lucke]

It wasn't called the "Queen of the Desert" because of it's penchant for garish paint jobs...

[flamingknives]

IIRC, the Aussies fighting the Japanese rigged up some form of nastiness with a battery of hedgehog anti-submarine bombs mounted on a Matilda.

[TexasJeff]

I was re-reading for the 5th or 6th time von Mellethin's "Panzer Battles". He says that in the Crusader battles the Germans used 5 Matilda's "of which we thought highly". Also, the Panzer III "only mounted a low velocity 50-mm gun" and the Matilda and Crusader tanks completely outclassed us in armor.

[ December 25, 2003, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: TexasJeff ]

[Rabidbvr]

hello one and all.... just a note take a look at the site good read...web page

As for taking one out give it a few targets to pick on... it will take on armor if it sees it so you have to play cat and mouse.. This will allow the inf to get up to it if you can lay a smoke road up to target start close to you and advance the smoke a couple of hundred yards a turn then lie in weight the better option if you like danger and death is to give it a rabbit to play with an AC is good for this as shot seems to hit and Pen but little damage poss a 40mm ap shot would pass clean out the back depends what it hits on the way and i have taken out a Mat with a 222 got with the 20mm (gundamage) poss i guess in real life...

At the end of the day not an ideal tank for the desert no HE slow and a little Hev but still a great tank till the 88s show up

Take care all happy hunting

[TexasJeff]

Thanks; That is a good site.

[CaSCa]

This thread inspired me to recreate the old A/H Tobruk "Firefight A: Queen of the Desert". It is 13 Italian M13/40's vs. 3 Mathilda II's. It was a real bear to port the entirely flat Tobruk map to CMAK, I know.

In the first play through the result was the same as in the board game. The Italians were completely destroyed by turn 5. I might play with it and see if I can come up with terrain where the Italians have a chance.

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Soddball:

An example of the strength of the tank was shown in an action at Pabu Hill near Sattleberg (NB: There is a fine sculpture of a Matilda, titled "The Sattleberg Tank" in the Museum). ( Source )

Actually the sculpture is entitled "Spirit of Sattleberg" and it reflects not only A Squadron's efforts but also the work of the crews and engineers who got these heavy vehicles up the steep slopes on muddy almost non-existant jungle tracks.

I've spoken to crews who were there and they talk of how the Japanese anti tank measures failed. It was a different story 3yrs later when 3 vehicles were destroyed by a 100mm naval gun used as part of the defences at Balikpapan in Borneo.

[Michael Dorosh]

Anyone who played CRESCENDO OF DOOM will fondly remember the Matilda as the King Tiger of the British Army in France in 1940. Nice piece of kit!

[A Panzer]

In a battle set on Crete the brits have to matilda and the germans have 1 atr. the atr is useless and to kill the tanks I had to use close assult. Even the the tanks were only imoblilized.

[Bone_Vulture]

The Matildas are hampered by the fact that they only pack AP or HE rounds (the CS model). A friend of mine attacked my measly Italian forces with three Matilda II's... All of them were abandoned due to immobilization or gun damage caused by my pea shooter AT guns.

[Webs]

More on the Matildas: http://www.wwiitechpubs.info/garage/afv-uk/afv-uk-ht-infantry-tank-mk-ii/afv-uk-ht-infantry-tank-mk-ii-br.html

[von Lucke]

Originally posted by Bone_Vulture:

The Matildas are hampered by the fact that they only pack AP or HE rounds (the CS model). A friend of mine attacked my measly Italian forces with three Matilda II's... All of them were abandoned due to immobilization or gun damage caused by my pea shooter AT guns.

Oddly enough, that's what happened to a troop of Matildas attacking at Halfaya Pass during "Battleaxe": The Italian gunners knew their 47mm pop-guns could never penetrate the British tank's armor, so they blasted away at the tracks. Immobilized all six of 'em, and forced the supporting infantry to go to ground.

[Bone_Vulture]

Originally posted by von Lucke:

Oddly enough, that's what happened to a troop of Matildas attacking at Halfaya Pass during "Battleaxe": The Italian gunners knew their 47mm pop-guns could never penetrate the British tank's armor, so they blasted away at the tracks. Immobilized all six of 'em, and forced the supporting infantry to go to ground.

Well, that's what I call realism.

The obvious flaw Matilda II has is the lack of HE firepower. My 47mm AT gun was set in rough terrain, and was never spooked beyond "cautious" as the targeted Matilda released the fury of a single machine gun on them.

[CRSutton]

The Italians never figured it out. The Germans on the other hand figured out how to deal with and it really proved to be obsolete by 1942. The German 50mm really was not too effective but the introduction of the long barrel 50mm really made the difference.

Problem with the Matilda was that in spite of its stellar armor, it was obsolete in so many other ways (slow, weak MG secondary armament, weak gun, lack of HE). Germans tanks were initially underarmed vs the matilda but in all other aspects superior due to their excellent overall utility. The Brits stuck with their slow infantry support tanks when all of the rest of the world was figuring out that they were not really that useful.

[JonS]

Originally posted by CRSutton:

The Germans on the other hand figured out how to deal with and it really proved to be obsolete by 1942. The German 50mm really was not too effective but the introduction of the long barrel 50mm really made the difference.

expanding a bit here: the short-50 in the German tanks couldn't damage the Matilda at any meaningful range. When it could hurt the 'tilda, the tank carrying it was itself wide open to being knocked out by the 2-pr.

The long-50 on the PaK could KO the 'tilda at a reasonable reange, and it took quite a while before the British tankers realised that they were losing to towed guns, and not the tanks.

Problem with the Matilda was that in spite of its stellar armor, it was obsolete in so many other ways (slow, weak MG secondary armament, weak gun, lack of HE).

This shows a misunderstanding of pre- and early-war British doctrine - the 'tilda did not have 'weak MG secondary armament'. The MG was it's main armament, with the 2-pr was the secondary. The British believed - not without reason - that the MG was the primary killer, and so their infantry tanks all had a main armament of MGs. There was no percieved need for HE, and the the 2-pr was provided 'just in case', since it wasn't even meant to go up against tanks.

And the doctrine wasn't a complete wash. If you take a careful look at the way Op COMPASS was conducted (particularly the 'break-ins' to the camps in Egypt, and the assaults on Bardia and Tobruk), you can see it worked well - in the right circumstances.

Regards

JonS

[Trommelfeuer]

The Italians never figured it out.

SPOILER ALERT-Beda Fomm

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So I don't have to wonder why my M13/40s are slaughtered by those Mathildas in "Beda Fomm"...eh?

In this desperate attempt to destroy at least one of these monsters one Mathilda recieved two penetrating hits, one at 5m through the rear hull and one at 7m through the side armour...but the Mathilda just rolled on...

Greetings, Sven

[ January 02, 2004, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: Trommelfeuer ]