Michael Dorosh Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Original "give us some ideas" thread by Wild Bill Wilder that was hijacked and locked You mentioned in the locked "scenario thread" Roy Farran. I've met him in person; saw him at an Italian Campaign dinner back in the spring. He wrote the regimental history of my Regiment (1921-1957) and a friend of mine went to high school with his daughter. Small world? There was a nifty writeup in our local newspaper about him not long ago. He was a lousy writer as far as it came to our regimental history, for various reasons I could go into...have you read his other works? And back to the subject at hand, I suppose we could continue the CMAK scenario idea thread here? [ October 06, 2003, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Michael grog question Where and when would intense urban fighting have occurred in Sicily and Italy? Hans 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Tittles Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Original "give us some ideas" thread by Wild Bill Wilder that was hijacked and locked You mentioned in the locked "scenario thread" Roy Farran. I've met him in person; saw him at an Italian Campaign dinner back in the spring. He wrote the regimental history of my Regiment (1921-1957) and a friend of mine went to high school with his daughter. Small world? There was a nifty writeup in our local newspaper about him not long ago. He was a lousy writer as far as it came to our regimental history, for various reasons I could go into...have you read his other works? And back to the subject at hand, I suppose we could continue the CMAK scenario idea thread here? I really like computer wargames for one particular reason. I don't have to meet wargamers. I used to play squad leader/etc. I even went to SL games at 'peoples' houses/apartments/S<>tholes. I didn't mind the crappy accomodations as much as the exposure to wierd people. It freaks me out how many wierd people like wargaming. [ October 06, 2003, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Tittles ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Hans: Where and when would intense urban fighting have occurred in Sicily and Italy? Hans Gonna have to wait until I get home to get the town name, but the 1st Canadian division was involved in some really nasty town fighting on Sicily. The source I have says that the fight was bad enough, but then the Canadians shot a couple of prisoners in plain sight of the Germans... it got real ugly after that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Berli is talking about Ortona (I think). The obvious other example is Cassino (the town, not the hill or the monastary). Others? Salerno (the town, not the beachhead), and any number of ****ty little villages/towns that the Germans didn't want to give up without a fight. Regards JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by JonS: Berli is talking about Ortona (I think). Nope (home now). The battle I was thinking of was the Loyal Edmonton Regiment at Leonforte. I'm only into the chapter of the book I'm reading (Battle of Sicily - Mitcham & von Stauffenberg) where Patton decides to go wandering off, like an idiot, toward Palermo. So far that is the only real knock down, drag out town fighting I've seen. Mostly the Germans have been pulling out before real fighting in the streets occurs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Berlichtingen: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JonS: Berli is talking about Ortona (I think). Nope (home now). The battle I was thinking of was the Loyal Edmonton Regiment at Leonforte. I'm only into the chapter of the book I'm reading (Battle of Sicily - Mitcham & von Stauffenberg) where Patton decides to go wandering off, like an idiot, toward Palermo. So far that is the only real knock down, drag out town fighting I've seen. Mostly the Germans have been pulling out before real fighting in the streets occurs. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: That's an excellent book, lots of good info from the Axis side.I am really enjoying it. THe chapter on Primosole Bridge was great. Monty comes up with a brilliant idea to drop paratroops on a bridge that is basically undefended, which they have to hold until the ground forces arrive in... one day. Stop me if you've heard this story before Do you have a source for the shoooting of prisoners in Leonforte? Same book. Specifically... The fighting inside Leonforte was heavy and fluctuating. Part of the town changed hands several times before a few of the Edmontons did a foolish thing: they shot some prisoners within view of some of their Kameraden who were still fighting. "The occurancesoon became known throughout the division and heightened its determination to resist," General Rodt noted later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Berlichtingen: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: That's an excellent book, lots of good info from the Axis side.I am really enjoying it. THe chapter on Primosole Bridge was great. Monty comes up with a brilliant idea to drop paratroops on a bridge that is basically undefended, which they have to hold until the ground forces arrive in... one day. Stop me if you've heard this story before Do you have a source for the shoooting of prisoners in Leonforte? Same book. Specifically... The fighting inside Leonforte was heavy and fluctuating. Part of the town changed hands several times before a few of the Edmontons did a foolish thing: they shot some prisoners within view of some of their Kameraden who were still fighting. "The occurancesoon became known throughout the division and heightened its determination to resist," General Rodt noted later.</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Was Primosole the bridge where British paratroops overshot and landed on the far side, and German paratroops were dropped and overshot, on the opposite side?Let's see... not really. Two hours before the British drop, the MG Btn of 1. FD jumped in and set up to the south of the Bridge. The British jump has to be the most spectacularly screwed up jump in history... First they get shot up by allied ships. Then they get shot up by allied and axis flak. Then they get dumped out all over the place (scattered all over eastern Sicily. Of the almost 2000 paras, less than 300 made it to the bridge... where the MG Btn was. Meanwhile the ground forces were only making about 5km a day against various strongpoints. By the time the ground forces make it to the bridge, the Paras have already broken up into small groups and scampered back to friendly lines. Interesting that Frost was there as well as Arnhem 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Bluebottle Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Originally posted by Berlichtingen: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Was Primosole the bridge where British paratroops overshot and landed on the far side, and German paratroops were dropped and overshot, on the opposite side?Let's see... not really. Two hours before the British drop, the MG Btn of 1. FD jumped in and set up to the south of the Bridge. The British jump has to be the most spectacularly screwed up jump in history... First they get shot up by allied ships. Then they get shot up by allied and axis flak. Then they get dumped out all over the place (scattered all over eastern Sicily. Of the almost 2000 paras, less than 300 made it to the bridge... where the MG Btn was. Meanwhile the ground forces were only making about 5km a day against various strongpoints. By the time the ground forces make it to the bridge, the Paras have already broken up into small groups and scampered back to friendly lines. Interesting that Frost was there as well as Arnhem </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Before this degenerates... er... changes into a discussion on various Para units performance in WWII... COULD WE PLEASE GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT MATTER!? ...ahem.. sorry... meds acting up... Anyway, I had a similar idea to Dorsosh and have even made a small tentative start in collecting ideas for CMAK scenarios. Byte Battler Afrika Korps So far it's just a bit of theft from others but I would be happy to host a few pages with ideas, if people felt like contributing. Further thoughts? -Derfel 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Apologies for the delay in replying -- I am currently living out of a suitcase during the week, and can only read my e-mail at the weekends. Once I have finished moving house to South Wales, things should go more smoothly, but as this would require conveyancing solicitors to get a bit of a wiggle on I doubt it will happen soon. Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: [snips] You mentioned in the locked "scenario thread" Roy Farran. I've met him in person; saw him at an Italian Campaign dinner back in the spring. [snips] He was a lousy writer as far as it came to our regimental history, for various reasons I could go into... Woo, impressive! So, dish the dirt, what's he like, and why can't he write? Come to that, what's he doing in Canada? Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: have you read his other works? Nope, only "Winged Dagger". I am quite sure the edition I have (the Cassell Military Classics edition) has been abridged, as I could have sworn that the edition I read at achool years ago included a period spent in Palestine after WW2. IIRC Farran was accused of "anti-semitism", whether on the grounds of this book or something else I don't know. If anyone can shed any light on the matter I'd like to know if my recollection is accurate or hogwash. Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: And back to the subject at hand, I suppose we could continue the CMAK scenario idea thread here? I think some of the material in "Winged Dagger" might make a good basis for CMAK scenarios, and might even be adequately doable in CMBB. There are sketch maps of e.g. the attack on the Villa Calvi and operations in Tombola valley, and orbat information that is more detailed than one can usually find. The scale of operations seems small enough to make a CM-size fight without excessive editing, too. As an example orbat, page 312 of the Cassell Military Classics edition gives the organisation of the Battaglione McGinty (otherwise the Battaglione Alleata) as at 7th April 1945 follows: SUNCOL (V. Modena, K. Nurk) Strength 5 British, 100 Russians, 6 mules. Armament 1 75mm pack howitzer ("Molto Stanco"), 1 3-in mor, 2 60mm mors, 1 Browning 0.5 HMG, 15 Bren LMGs. MOONCOL (Maj. Farran, Capt. Eyston) Strength 25 british, 30 Garibaldini, 6 mules. Armament 1 3-in mor, 2 60mm mors, 2 Vickers MMGs, 10 Bren LMGs. STARCOL (Lt. Tysoe, Tito) Strength 5 British, 60 Italians, 6 mules. Armament 1 3-in mor, 2 2-in mors, 1 Browning 0.5 HMG, 15 Bren LMGs. ECLIPSECOL (Lt. Eyton-Jones) Strength 10 British with 4 jeeps. Armament 4 twin Vickers "K" guns. A pretty powerful little force, I think, certainly not short of automatic firepower for its size. All the best, John. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Hans, I believe the Rangers' landing at Gela, Sicily, were supposed to be pretty hot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Ace Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 WE NEED AN EL GuETAR senario, nothing like patton kicking the crap outta rommels 10th. [ October 10, 2003, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: TANK ACE ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 11, 2003 Author Share Posted October 11, 2003 Originally posted by John D Salt: So, dish the dirt, what's he like, and why can't he write? Come to that, what's he doing in Canada? He's OLD! He has lived in Canada since the War, I do believe. I have info on his bio at the following URL: http://members.shaw.ca/calgaryhighlanders/farran.htm Roy Farran was born in England in 1921, attended school in India, and after service in the Second World War retired to Calgary (at the age of 31) to raise cattle. His Second World War exploits could (and have) fill volumes; Farran was a Commando officer, serving in the now famous Special Air Service. He first saw action in North Africa with the 3rd Hussars before joining the SAS, commanding a troop of tanks. Farran was moved to Crete where he was wounded in action and taken prisoner. After reuperating in a Greek hospital, Farran escaped by boat and were adrift for nine days before being rescued by a British destroyer. After joining the SAS he led many raids behind enemy lines, large and small, and was highly decorated. He won the DSO twice and the Military Cross three times, as well as the US Legion of Merit. He remained in the SAS after World War Two, being wrongfully accused of the murder of a 16 year old Jewish terrorist in Palestine while serving there. When a mail bomb sent to "R. Farran" at his mother's home killed his brother Rex, he decided to leave the Army. Once in Calgary, Farran founded the North Hill News in 1954 (at about the same time he wrote the Calgary Highlanders' history), and served as city alderman between 1961 and 1971. Elected a Member of the Legislative Assembly of Alberta, he served as Solicitor General from 1975 to 1979.His history of the Calgary Highlanders may well have been done as a political favour, at the request of the regiment, on a whim, I really don't know. But being an influential member of society here in Calgary, and no doubt friends with many officers still serving in the Regiment, I get the impression he was very much limited in what he could say. The Commanding Officer from 42-Oct 44 was not well liked and considered by some to be shell-shy. None of this is even hinted at in the book. The first half of the book reads like a list of the dinner parties hosted by the Regiment in the 1920s and 1930 (because that is, in effect, what it is!) and is very much a product of its age. This was a time when regimental histories had no maps, perhaps 1 or 2 sketches, and a dozen or so photos that were probably "stock" images from the Canadian War Museum. For its time, it was probably hailed as an impressive achievement, but I suspect he had to curry favour with many people still living - including the direct relatives of those whose service may have been less than stellar. I regret to say the book is about as interesting as dishwater, and was clearly not written for the layman, but more as a reminiscence for soldiers who had been there, who could look at the name of the company commanders and recall their faces and attitudes from personal experience. Anyone who didn't serve would feel like an outsider, trying to read the history, as if it wasn't meant for them. Different times. He still cuts a dashing figure, though - but who couldn't in a sand-coloured beret and all those medals! [ October 10, 2003, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Rider Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I'd like to see Troina and Gela. San Pietro would make a great scenerio. Plus, there's that one battle where a bunch of Rangers got trapped behind German lines near the Anzio beachead. Can any grog name it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 26, 2003 Author Share Posted December 26, 2003 Sorry for the size of the images. Here is Roy Farran at Rememberance Day in Calgary, 2003. Err....he's the one with the medals and the SAS hat... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 Originally posted by Berlichtingen: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JonS: Berli is talking about Ortona (I think). Nope (home now). The battle I was thinking of was the Loyal Edmonton Regiment at Leonforte. I'm only into the chapter of the book I'm reading (Battle of Sicily - Mitcham & von Stauffenberg) where Patton decides to go wandering off, like an idiot, toward Palermo. So far that is the only real knock down, drag out town fighting I've seen. Mostly the Germans have been pulling out before real fighting in the streets occurs. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Originally posted by Berlichtingen: Interesting that Frost was there as well as Arnhem He was also in on the Bruneval raid the year before. Man got around. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 He was also involved in a drop onto an axis airfield in Tunisia, where the paras were supposed to hold and... Well, I guess you know the rest of the story. MD - I do not think Berli is active in designing anymore. Would love to be wrong though. All the best Andreas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Maybe not quite on topic, but I'll post it here anyway. I'm quite enjoying the series Sie Kommen ! as a format. This seems like something you Grogs could really do something with. It offers a bit more interest than the single battle but doesn't require the huge year long time commitment that a metacampaign does. I thought of it specifically when you brought up that idea for a metacampaign but worried about having the time for it, Michael. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Ghost Rider, Cisterna, where in an epic fight the Rangers got shot to pieces, but not before doing much worse damage to the Hermann Goering Division. I know there are Cisterna scenarios for CMBO, but am not sure what the situation is for CMAK. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 There's one on the CD, I believe. All the best Andreas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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