is there "cheating" in Combat mission games?

[Cabe Booth]

don't explain how someone would cheat, just let me know. Do people use exploits? and if so, what are the signs or symptoms? I am having a game right now that has some pretty amazing feats by my opponent. He may just be really good and i suck. or..........

[JasonC]

Pretty much you just suck. Dollars to donuts.

You asked.

[Cabe Booth]

2 posts now you have been somewhat abusive. Hoping you are kidding around

[JasonC]

So far you whine a lot. Hope you grow up someday.

[War Gecko]

Greetings, Cabe.

The short answer to your question is no, there isn't. I'm not an expert in that sort of thing and I'm not sure what sort of bugs there are, but none of them seem game-breaking.

As far as why you are playing so poorly, it's hard to tell without further information. Not that I would recommend you enlisting me to instruct you. I could tell you the differences between the panther A and G (roughly) but I am no military genius. Anyway, you don't tell us which game you are playing, who you are playing as, the force types, etc. etc. It is a heck of a lot different, as I'm sure you can imagine, playing as a crack King Tiger as compared to, let's say, a confused young Italian in his baby tank-like-thing. Also, things are treated differently, as I'm assuming you could gather, from game to game. Different force types as well as just how the game handles those things. (or so I have been led to believe).

Overall, in regards to whether one sucks or not, I would just assume they suck. I just assume I suck when I lose and try to play better. Not to be so presumptuous as to believe you have the brain capacity of a lemur, but, quite frankly, your posts hint on a sort of ... lack of understanding.

Did you search the forums for any known bugs and/or defects in the game in which you are playing? I know there was a bug in CMBO regarding flack trucks, although I'm not sure what kind of bug that was right now(do a search). Did you check for any bias and/or lack of realism? JasonC himself thinks that there is a lot of unrealistic qualities about these games. One example is the "bias" towards German units in CMBB that he has been talking about for a while. I haven't personally checked them to see if they are right, but I see no reason why Jason would randomly lie to us(as there would be no point). I haven't seen all of your posts, but, given your two posts here, it doesn't seem as if you did that. If you did, go ahead and post what you have found or wait until someone more knowledgeable than I am shows up.

Finally, about your accusation of JasonC being abusive. I believe (through past reading of his posts) that Jason was just telling you the honest truth. You probably do suck. Frankly, what else was he supposed to tell you? If there are no cheats then how else should we explain it? I doubt you are playing the likes of Jason, or Fionn, or ... I don't know, whoever is regarded as good at this. So he gave you the answer you were looking for. Maybe the answer isn't what you wanted?

I doubt a lot of people would go to the trouble of what I just did(and indeed a lot of people, I would imagine, won't appreciate the ordeal at all) . I also used my very first post on these here threads to tell you this. You should consider yourself lucky. I was hoping to lurk around for another couple of years to get the all-time-lurker badge.

[Cabe Booth]

well the question wasn't posed as if I am frustrated and losing all the time. I am doing quite well and the learning curve is steep on the tactics built into this great game. My question was only to see if there was a hacker community. I saw one thing happen during a game last night that seemed way out of line with what I normally see under same conditions. I would elaborate, but out of politeness and my own ignorance I wouldn't want my opponent to think I was accusing him of cheating by reading this posts. Hence why I asked if it was possible or if I just suck. Probably just because I didn't understand it. That's why I posed the question the way I did.

It was just very possible that I was sucking giant you know what's and just getting my butt treated in a n improper fashion by a damn good player.

But as in all games there are those that have tweaks and little hacks. Tell me differently and I will shut up. It was a simple question. I didn't ask how to cheat, just if it was possible.

A couple of thing here though confuse me. I know this is a tight community and people kid and joke, and I can take a good jab in jest as much as the next guy. Type doesn't give one the benefit of vocal inflection, so when someone comes back with a statement that I suck I tend to think he is trying to flame me and that is why I had to ask if he was attempting to do so or just joking with me. I was under the assumption that he was, but also felt a inkling of hostility.

Whining? Whining? Wow. You guys have a low threshold on getting asked a simple question. Maybe you should look at some of my other posts. Heck maybe you should look at the whole start of this post before I became the "whiner".

As to whether I did a search looking for an answer, I did and came up with the answer that yes, people do and can cheat. I had just seen something weird that gave me pause and wondered that if since that first thread about cheating in CM some new exploits had been found. I was tired last night which is nobody's problem but mine and didn't notice how recent the post was. See the thread "Cheating/Hacking re-visited".

All that being said, I still find it amazing that some people find it their job to respond to forum posts that annoy them. Doing everyone a favor as if the post makes some sort of repetitive annoying sound like car alarm going off in your neighborhood at 4 am and you are the hero that goes and yanks the battery cable out. Last time I checked, my writing has been silent font, polite and not demanding a response. My usual response to a thread I have no answer for or don't want to answer is... well to just move on. Not pop in and say "you suck" "Grow up" and so on . But hey, that's my way of avoiding long winded worthless threads like this one.

JasonC gave me a very long and helpful response in regard to another question I had. To go from that to "So far you whine a lot. Hope you grow up someday." is effing ridiculous and yes pretty G-damn abusive. If you can't see that then well.... I don't know what to think.

Far as I am concerned I am over this and will refrain from responding in a way that would get a flame war going here, which I would hope most people in this forum are way above. And honestly have not seen in any threads so far which makes this whole situation even more perplexing.

As to my initial question? The only thing I learned was to avoid asking questions in a g-dman "tips and tricks" forum... because evidently that pisses people off and makes you a target for snarky comments and personal attacks. I did ask if he was joking, what I got was way over the top. All in all I am quite surprised the tone of all this has taken.

I really enjoyed waking up first thing to read this thread. Have a nice day.

[Cuirassier]

JasonC vs. the noobs...When will it end? lol

[JasonC]

In re not starting a flame war, too late.

In re taking offense, you are the one who chose to do so. I am the one who directly and exhaustively answered all of your questions with everything you actually need to know.

It isn't hard to figure out the situation. You haven't been here long, you ask questions and make statements that clearly show where you are on the learning curve of CM play, we all know exactly what pigeonhole you fit in, even if you don't.

Someone who complains about Brit infantry not being able to attack tanks doesn't know game mechanics or Brit infantry (which you say you usually play) particularly well. Someone who complains that guns are impossible to use because they die on repositioning reveals his greenness, because the best players get miles out of the bang for buck potential of particularly the cheaper guns. Someone taking the biggest honking guns hasn't yet realized the strength of guns is cheapness and stealth, not mega hitting power. (Though some types share cheapness and hitting power and work wonders).

Nearly most revealing of all, someone who complains that his Achilles blow up when looked at funny without accomplishing anything clearly can't drive. Ask a Russian player. For most of the war they would kill to have an asset with the power of the Achilles, let alone at its price.

This is par for the course, too. Having trained on the AI and kicked it to the curb a few times, a new player thinks himself hot stuff, then plays humans and loses. Humans do not park killable tanks in arcs of tanks they can't kill back, like the AI does. You can't lean on a front armor plate crutch quite the same way. One has to actually drive worth a darn, use cover, etc.

Now, when someone with "newbie" practically tatooed on his forehead tosses around implications that the only reason he could possibly be losing to veteran human CM players is that they latter are probably dastardly cheaters hacking the game to spite his paranoid and oh so flawless self, there are two evident conclusions. One, the newbie sucks royally. And two, he doesn't have the humility God gives puppies. He still has worlds of stuff to learn but he resents the fact, and tries to cover his evident need to learn the ropes from others by slandering them.

Politely but clearly and firmly, I pointed this out to you. In my other reply, I explained that you probably suck, given your comments on what tanks aren't working for you. I went out of my way in that post to make the aside, that you suck for now and can readily change it, if you want to. I didn't put it so clearly perhaps, but the precondition for such improvement is the humility to acknowledge the present, continuing, need to learn. Which one would think would be internally obvious enough from the mere fact that you are here asking people who clearly know better how to do various things.

But then, you are also slandering a nameless present opponent and CM players in general. Since you also charitably and reasonably offered in your first post in this thread, the alternate explanation - that you suck - and since this is clearly the actual explanation - because you do suck - I simply explain the obviousness of the conclusion to you. Which, rest assured, is obvious to everyone else here, too.

It was not an insult to tell you that you suck. Because, earth to newbie, the great cosmic truth of the case is that you suck. That is what it means to still be learning how to play a difficult strategy game this rich. 1600 chess players don't pretend grandmasters are cheating, and that otherwise said fish would always win. They accept the patently obvious cosmic reality that they still suck, and they get on with it.

And when you grow up, you can too.

[Kingfish]

Here's a thought...

Don't respond.

Wouldn't want anyone to think you're an asshole, now would we?

[Paul AU]

Cabe,

I dunno specifically what's made you suspicious in your game/s, but it's been shown in these forums that it is possible to 'hack' the game.

For example, people are able to add extra weapons to each of their squads, which gives them an (in-game invisible) advantage. (I've seen squads with 15 LMGs - which is probably overdoing things...)

Stuff like that.

I think it's rare, and it's unlikely it's happening in your game/s. (You probably just suck) But chessmasters can and do cheat from time to time.

How is it done? I don't know and don't want to know. Why is it done? Some people care far too much about beating other people. Speaking of which...

... judging from this thread and others like it, you're not the one who needs to grow up around here.

(Which is one reason I don't post here much any more).

"O! It is excellent To have a giants strength, but it is tyrannous To use it like a giant."

[Cabe Booth]

Ok,

Personal attacks and just plain arrogance. Stunning for a bunch adults.

One last time.

Never said I was an expert.

Only asked if it was possible and made sure not to ask how to do it even if it was possible.

Didn't accuse anyone of doing it.

Just saw a one SINGLE unit do something suspicious, which I knew was was probably just good game play, which would be why I worded my original post the way I did.

Asked for my own knowledge.

Don't understand all the hostility.

Why you insist on implying things abut me personally and what my intentions were no matter how I explain myself only leads me to believe you are just out for a fight.

I am becoming more and more aware that these forums are not the place to ask simple questions.

And no matter how you try to "Bill O'Reilly" the hell out of it, it still was just a new guy asking a question.

It was a simple query to educate myself on the possibilities and the response has been way over the top and completely unfortunate.

Thank you Paul for answering my question. It is nice to see someone in the thread that offers an actual response. Seriously. Thank you.

Now as to becoming an asshole.... I don't understand when I started or how I have become the target of such a label. I have tried to be polite and ask questions as to why I am getting read the riot act, but it seems that everyone just has nothing better to do today. But I do. Goodbye.

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by Cabe:

Now as to becoming an asshole.... I don't understand when I started or how I have become the target of such a label. I have tried to be polite and ask questions as to why I am getting read the riot act, but it seems that everyone just has nothing better to do today. But I do. Goodbye.

Cabe,

My comment was directed at Jason.

[Cabe Booth]

oh, sorry. I was under such heavy fire. i didn't know where it was coming from all the time.....cuz I am a noob. Which means everything is new and exciting to me, and at times confusing and for some reason....abusive?

But I am sorry Kingfish, I didn't know for sure if you were after me or not. Sorry if I indicated any offense towards you by mistake

But thank you.

Hey, let's all play some games or do some modding!

Who's with me?

cricket.

[K.A. Miles]

LOL, Kingfish.

Nevermind the individuals who delight in abusing other people on the slightest pretense. It just makes them feel special, I think. Kinda like, um, the same feeling a hack gets with abusing everyone with his exploits. A good player (and a good person) doesn't need that stuff to get from game-to-game (or day-to-day).

So stay around. There's good eggs around here. Just avoid the rotten ones. Even though my involvement on the forums is limited, I've met many good friends here.

To answer your question, I've never been faced with any sort of cheating. Sometimes incredible stuff happens in CM, and I always marvel at them! It makes CM interesting and certainly less linear than many wargames.

[Cabe Booth]

well just do a google image search for Internet tough guy magazine

I will stick around, everyone has been extremely helpful or silent if they have no answer or advice.

Most folks have been very welcoming and helpful in my attempts at modding and getting my head wrapped around the small points of the game's strategies. I did purchase the CMBB book for sale here and it is a wealth of info for both CMAK and CMBB, but sometimes there are things that fall through the cracks.

In my other thread which was mentioned, I don't understand why asking why the generals didn't see it fit to give UK infantry AT capabilities was whining or insulting the game. I was assuming that it was historically correct, just amazing to discover. Wasn't like I was calling Churchill an idiot or anything. Just questioning the loadout. Like the possibility of there actually being UK troops with late war AT capabilities in another loadout, meaning mechanized, armor combined arms ect. I was thinking maybe they just were not available with the force selection we had chosen for the fight. Then suddenly I became Baldric in a room of bi-polar Blackackadders on meth.

And my worry about the cheating thing was an amazing feat of bravery and and luck by a tank hunter squad running about 75 yards through Browning fire of 4 half tracks at less than 50 yards all the way up to the side of my firefly who never even got a chance to react and the in 3 second the projectiles slammed into the side of the tank... keblooey, the tankhunters never flinched, got pinned paniced...nada. all in less than a minute.

As I write this I just realize I think I have seen my first example of a fanatic unit.

add to the fact the guy is a damn good player and the prior game I played with him we really slugged it out as well to my loss, I had better luck in that game though, just not enough to avoid major defeat.

I guess watching a fanatic unit operate would make one wonder if something fishy was going on, especially when it costs them their last tank.

[Sixxkiller]

Cabe,

First off welcome aboard.

Second, its apparent you are a newbie just for your lack of thin skin. This community can get rather heated at times. I didn't from Jasons post think he was being an ass, he just told you what you somewhere deep down already knew. I mean this is your first game against a human. Did you think you would be Rommelistic and win 95-5?

But keep playing. Lots of the games here end in draws or near draws, which in a certain respect is the best way to go.

[Cabe Booth]

done, just so done with this.

He wasn't being an ass. Your right.

and I have played over 40 PBEM games, but I guess that doesn't make me any less of a human slug and.... you know what it just doesn't matter anymore. This is just fricking ridiculous.

[ April 08, 2007, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: Cabe ]

[Baron von Beergut]

Actually one can cheat. Over at www.theblitz.org a player from Poland found a way to get into the program and after about six months of suspicions against him it was proven and he was booted from the club. Apparently in quick battles he could go edit his units to arm them with max amount of AT weapons and ammo and max out leader attributes. Another player from Poland also, would claim to have never played or looked at a battle and claim to be playing blind, then at the end admit that he'd play vs the AI at the same time as the battle so as to find out where all the reinforcement and set up areas were so he could attempt to meet reinforcements as they arrived.

But overall, I think there is very little cheating in Combat Mission. Far less than they had in the Campaign Series EF, EF2, and WF games.

Manytimes one is beaten as suggested here by others from someone just being a really good player and taking advantage of the opponents mis steps.

Good luck in your battles... BvB

PS: I have to agree with Cabe - no reason for anyone to talk down to him that way for no reason. Fine if you want to banter that way with a player you know, but to someone new to the board, there is no reason to alienate Cabe or others which will in turn discourage people from contributing here.

[ April 08, 2007, 04:32 AM: Message edited by: Baron von Beergut ]

[Elmar Bijlsma]

This is much ado about nothing.

In my eyes Cabe clearly and deliberately set himself up for the sucking comment and JasonC obliged. Nothing wrong with that. Cabe then moaning about it provoked JasonCs unnecessary but not undeserved swipe. Cabe can protest all he likes about how he didn't want a flame war but he then proceeded to be the biggest contributor to it. And around here, you get what you ask for.

So... could the two of you please, for the love of ****, chill out? Neither of you intended to give deliberate offence so shake hands, why don't you?

[PseudoSimonds]

The problem with this thread is that it's not helpful to anyone since it's completely devoid of details. Cabe, you said you already did a search so you know that it is possible to cheat in this game. So you've already answered your question on your own.

Give us the details. It's the only way either we'll learn of an exploit, or you'll learn something new about the game. Don't worry about your opponent reading this thread, either they're cheating or their ego will be bolstered by the fact that they're so good that their opponents think they're cheating.

[Cabe Booth]

Hi PseudoSimonds,

the thread was titled "Cheating/Hacking re-visited"

pretty recent in the forums here.

I mentioned it above, but I am sure it got lost in the paragraphs

I have no details on how to cheat, was just wondering if it was possible. With most games now days having to use punkbuster and screen shots to bust cheaters I didn't know if this game suffered from the same type of asshats that need to cheat. I was just asking if there were cheats, so I could be on the lookout for one.

I think what I saw the other night was just a fanatic unit in action, because having read how most cheats operate, they wouldn't have enabled the unit to do what I saw. Only a great opponent with a fanatic unit could have pulled that stunt off and it was amazing enough to get me thinking until I got my answers from here and the thread I just mentioned. I love run-on sentences

[ April 08, 2007, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: Cabe ]

[Madmatt]

Okay, time to wade into this mess and put down the hammer of law, once more.

Cabe, you asked if someone was cheating of if you "sucked", Jason replied with his answer.

You can't get mad if you ask an "Either-Or" loaded question like that and then don't like the answer given.

So Cabe, as was suggested above, if your going to want to be an active and useful forum contributer, then you will need to develope a slightly thicker outer skin, especially if your going to pose questions like this. If you take offense to what someone says, be an adult and just ignore it. If what they said crosses the line and breaks Forum Rules, one of the admins will hear about it soon enough and take care of it.

JasonC, lighten the hell up and don't try and provoke the new people so much. YOU KNEW that he would take offense to your post, but you did it anyway didn't you? This is your warning, knock it off. It's been a while since I banned a forum regular and my banning finger is getting itching.

As to cheating in CM, we *heard* that it was possible via hex editing, but the cheats were always of a very specific nature (changing weapon amounts) which would be considered "soft" data, or data that was already variable. For example, there are all sorts of different squad loadouts so that type of info was coded a certain way, and apparently, was able to be modified by this one Polish guy, that has since disapeared into obscurity. What to our knowledge was NEVER hacked (by him or anyone else) was actual AI attributes and gameplay issues, or what I would call "hard" data. Stuff like morale, weapon performance stats, ballistics calculations etc..

There have been other *people* cheats, where someone guesses his opponents PBEM password, or he has intimate knowledge of the battle ect. but there is little we could do about that.

So, yes, it is "possible" to cheat in CM, but the odds of it actually occuring to you, where you opponent is using a new set of "game data" to give himself uber-units would have to be very small.

Okay, so Cabe and JasonC, retreat to your neutral corners and come back out amiable and mature to one another.

That is all.

Madmatt