Brujay Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Sidi Rezegh. 20-some Crusaders and some lighter stuff to knock out Axis defenses. The engines kick over, the tracks churn up dust, British armor heads into the fray. A while later (about half the game, actually) contact is made. "Enemy guns ahead," shout the tank commanders. "Get something up the spout! Take 'em out!" "Blimey!," says a loader. "We got no bleedin' haitch-ees! Only bleedin' APs!" "Can't we take out guns with APs?" asks the green gunner. "Only if they go straight down their bleedin' muzzles," says the loader. "Who in bloody 'ell thought this one up?" Who indeed? And Sidi Rezegh is only one example. No wonder we lost the war and are now all speaking German. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 A couple of weeks ago I knocked out an Italian mountain howitzer with 2pdr AT. Bleedin' miracle, that was. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVS Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 In one game last week I counted three dead parrots. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappie Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 ...and in a game I just played a building I captured was a cheese shop..and it had no cheese! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 "Doctor! Moy brain hurts!!!" Lt. H.R. Gumby 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Why are all my officers upper class twits - and why do they kill themselves before even seeing the Jerry? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 i noticed in the British OOB "joke equipped infantry". they are certainly effective, causing trenches & bunkers to be abandoned within minutes. glad i don't speak German actually. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebulon Pleasure Beast Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 My dog has no nose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Originally posted by REVS: In one game last week I counted three dead parrots. Those parrots weren't dead, they just had a "hide" command. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc420 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Ah, that explains those AP only Crusaders attacking the AA guns. I was supposed to use Alt-J to launch a joke at the enemy. Let me finish my spam, then I'll try something completely different. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 You'll never finish your SPAM. There is an infinite supply of SPAM. The entire universe is made of SPAM. SPAM is the fundamental building block of nature. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquon Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 You've asked for it... ----------------------------------- (Knock at the door, sergeant enters, and salutes.) Sergeant: Two civilian gentlemen to see you ... sir! Colonel: Show them in please, sergeant. Sergeant: Mr Dino Vercotti and Mr Luigi Vercotti. (The Vercotti brothers enter. They wear Mafia suits and dark glasses.) Dino: Good morning, Colonel. Colonel: Good morning gentlemen. Now what can I do for you. Luigi: (looking round office casually) You've ... you've got a nice army base here, Colonel. Colonel: Yes. Luigi: We wouldn't want anything to happen to it. Colonel: What? Dino: No, what my brother means is it would be a shame if... (he knocks something off mantel) Colonel: Oh. Dino: Oh sorry, Colonel. Colonel: Well don't worry about that. But please do sit down. Luigi: No, we prefer to stand, thank you, Colonel. Colonel: All right. All right. But what do you want? Dino: What do we want, ha ha ha. Luigi: Ha ha ha, very good, Colonel. Dino: The Colonel's a joker, Luigi. Luigi: Explain it to the Colonel, Dino. Dino: How many tanks you got, Colonel? Colonel: About five hundred altogether. Luigi: Five hundred! Hey! Dino: You ought to be careful, colonel. Colonel: We arc careful, extremely careful. Dino: 'Cos things break, don't they? Colonel: Break? Luigi: Well everything breaks, don't it colonel. (he breaks something on desk) Oh dear. Dino: Oh see my brother's clumsy Colonel, and when he gets unhappy he breaks things. Like say, he don't feel the army's playing fair by him, he may start breaking things, Colonel. Colonel: What is all this about? Luigi: How many men you got here, Colonel? Colonel: Oh, er ... seven thousand infantry, six hundred artillery, and er, two divisions of paratroops. Luigi: Paratroops, Dino. Dino: Be a shame if someone was to set fire to them. Colonel: Set fire to them? Luigi: Fires happen, Colonel. Dino: Things burn. Colonel: Look, what is all this about? Dino: My brother and I have got a little proposition for you Colonel. Luigi: Could save you a lot of bother. Dino: I mean you're doing all right here aren't you, Colonel. Luigi: Well suppose some of your tanks was to get broken and troops started getting lost, er, fights started breaking out during general inspection, like. Dino: It wouldn't be good for business would it, Colonel? Colonel: Are you threatening me? Dino: Oh, no, no, no. Luigi: Whatever made you think that, Colonel? Dino: The Colonel doesn't think we're nice people, Luigi. Luigi: We're your buddies, Colonel. Dino: We want to look after you. Colonel: Look after me? Luigi: We can guarantee you that not a single armoured division will get done over for fifteen bob a week. Colonel: No, no, no. Luigi: Twelve and six. Colonel: No, no, no. Luigi: Eight and six ... five bob... Colonel: No, no this is silly. Dino: What's silly? Colonel: No, the whole premise is silly and it's very badly written. I'm the senior officer here and I haven't had a funny line yet. So I'm stopping it. Dino: You can't do that! Colonel: I've done it. The sketch is over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gallear Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Just found this interesting post. Could it be that the BFC designers have a set idea on how effective low calibre HE rounds and tank machineguns were that is based on their preconceived perception rather than reality? Maybe tank machineguns were much more effective against infantry and guns that small calibre HE? British doctrine for what ever the real reason was that 2pdr and 6pdr HE performance was not good enough and a dedicated 3 inch gun on a tank in the Squadron was the way to go. Tank Machineguns against infantry and AT guns are just not that effective compared to the HMG. Take that same MG34 HMG put it on a bipod and watch its effectives drop by a vast magnitude. Some German Squads have to have two MGs in their TO&E to keep their invincibility advantage against allied squads. I certainly have found that German tanks with 37mm guns have a hard time even against low calibre Russian AT guns in CMBB. I of course cannot be right in my perceived assertions about the CM system because if I was it would be Monty Python not only in the Desert but on the Russian steppe as well :eek: . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Originally posted by Sergei: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by REVS: In one game last week I counted three dead parrots. Those parrots weren't dead, they just had a "hide" command. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 thats why i do pacific front cuz iiii like chinese..... the're cute and the're cuddly and the're ready to please... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Forget small calibre HE, I have trouble getting ATGs with 75mm HE. 700-1000m, 4 Shermans vs. 1 ATG, who wins? The ATG, each and every time, it seems. Bah. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gallear Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Oh my god does flaming knives actually agree with me :eek: ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gallear Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Oh my god does flaming knives actually agree with me :eek: ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Originally posted by Mark Gallear: British doctrine for what ever the real reason was that 2pdr and 6pdr HE performance was not good enough and a dedicated 3 inch gun on a tank in the Squadron was the way to go. Well of course a 3" howitzer will put a much bigger package of HE on a target than a 2pdr or 6pdr gun. The problem was that there were only a couple of 3" armed CS tanks in the whole squadron and they could not engage as many targets at one time as a dozen gun armed tanks. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gallear Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Yes, what Michael says is of course true - in a way - if the other tanks could deliver a decent sized round. What I am saying is: i) that we these AT guns designed to fire a small AP shot rather than HE they are not very good at doing HE so the tank relies on its MGs for anti-personnel work. Ok these are rather more limited in range but AT guns and infantry tend to pop up into close anyway. Hence the British Army decision. ii) CM underplays the effectiveness of tank MGs. Tank MGs come on an armoured and fixed mount and carry loads of ammo. Yet it s not necessarily suicidal for infantry to pop up in front of one. I also think the balance between tripod and bipod guns is too great. (CM is not the only system to do this one.) Look at the effectiveness of a .50 Browning HMG from a tripod compared with on a halftrack (and some halftracks come with gun shields.) Read the account in my Steamroller Farm scenario brief - (Cheap and nasty plug!) - at close ranges the Besas - were very effective in getting AT crews to rout a way from their guns even if they had gun shields. Ok, your Besa is not going to do you much good at 2000m when engaged by an 88mm but then even a Squadron of Sherman’s is going to be in deep do-do. (Sorry, make that Parrot sick.) (Grenade assaults at close range are also poorly modelled in CM but that is another story.) [ February 04, 2004, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: Mark Gallear ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Originally posted by Mark Gallear: Yes, what Michael says is of course true - in a way - if the other tanks could deliver a decent sized round.Of course 2pdr and 6pdr shells are not going to deliver huge blasts, but even 20mm were found to be quite effective anti-personnel rounds and their HE content is small compared to to 40mm (the equivalent of the 2pdr) and miniscule compared to the 6pdr. The German 50mm round was found to be useful against personnel and it is a bit smaller than the 6pdr (57mm equivalent). So yes, bigger is always better and you are correct that MGs are not totally useless. But I don't think it is correct to say that the desert tankers were better off without an HE round at their disposal. What I am saying is: i) that we these AT guns designed to fire a small AP shot rather than HE they are not very good at doing HE so the tank relies on its MGs for anti-personnel work.See above. Ok these are rather more limited in range but AT guns and infantry tend to pop up into close anyway.Not on the desert. There engagement ranges were longer. ii) CM underplays the effectiveness of tank MGs. Tank MGs come on an armoured and fixed mount...I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, but as worded that statement is false. The only fixed mount MGs on tanks I can think of offhand were the M2A4 light tank, which only saw limited use in the Pacific, the M3 medium, and the JS-2 heavy. It was not a good idea, which is why it was not widely employed in other designs. AVF MGs tended to be either turreted (either coax or as main armament) or flexible. ...and carry loads of ammo.That much is true and is clearly modeled in CM. I also think the balance between tripod and bipod guns is too great. (CM is not the only system to do this one.) Look at the effectiveness of a .50 Browning HMG from a tripod compared with on a halftrack (and some halftracks come with gun shields.)I can't figure out what you are trying to say here. What is your point? Michael [ February 04, 2004, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Michael Emrys ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Its only a model! Obviously the CS tanks should be equipped with a supply of the holy hand grenade of Atioch! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Originally posted by Sergei: Why are all my officers upper class twits - and why do they kill themselves before even seeing the Jerry? It's the upper class twit suicide assault aquad!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 SPAM is the missing 80% of Universal mass. dark SPAM if you will. we would see this except the telescopes have the first effective junk filters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Originally posted by Other Means: SPAM is the missing 80% of Universal mass.Congratulations. You just caught up with last week. Now for extra bonus points, can you tell us whether the universe should be fried lightly on each side or browned under a broiler? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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