Armored composition of 2nd Pz during the campaign in Greece

[Kingfish]

Looking for info on what types of tanks and A/Cs were in 2Pz during the Greek campaign, specifically for the battles around Platamon, Tempe and the Servia pass.

Were the PzIIIs the 37mm or 50mm equipped versions? What types of A/Cs and HTs?

Edit: should add 5Pz to the mix just in case.

[ August 18, 2006, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Kingfish ]

[John Kettler]

Kingfish,

Oho! My favorite seeker of data has returned! Does this help?

Tank strength late 1940 (2PD shows 0 AFVs as of Barbarossa )

http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/afv-strengths/_afv_40-05-10.htm

Corps organization

http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/41-04/corps_18.html

Master OOB link

http://niehorster.orbat.com/500_eto/_41-04_balkans.htm

THE GERMAN CAMPAIGN IN THE BALKANS, Pt. III, Spring 1941

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/balkan/20_260_3.htm

See Metaxas Line piece here; whole thread is full of grog juiciness, to include Greek war posters and political cartoons on the heroic Greek defense.

http://p083.ezboard.com/fbalkanshellenicforum.showMessageRange?topicID=4396.topic&start=41&stop=60

This gives some German tank inventory figures from which you can derive the relative split by type

http://panzer-abwehr.blogspot.com/2005/04/some-german-pzkw-inventory-figures.html

Panzer Battalion

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Armour/panzer_battalion.htm

German tank & SP specs (detailed)

http://www.onwar.com/tanks/germany/index.htm

OOB 2 PD

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1274

OOB 5 PD

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1277

If you can read German...

2 PD

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Panzerdivisionen/2PD.htm

5 PD

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Panzerdivisionen/5PD.htm

2 PD veteran account(mit pics)

http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/dixie/921/eschner/eschner.html#

More Panzer OOB

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/articles/pzdiv.htm

Very detailed Panzer OOB here

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/articles/pzdiv2.htm

To drool over

http://www.sonic.net/~bstone/archives/010218.shtml

Would simply go to my Horst Scheibert PANZER book and look at the relevant section photos to answer many of your questions--if I knew where it was!

Hope the above helps.

Regards,

John Kettler

P.S.

Just had a brain wave. Find the relevant volume of the TIME/LIFE HISTORY OF WORLD WAR 2. That should have exactly the kind of imagery you need to answer your model type questions. The AMERICAN HERITAGE ILLUSTRATED HISTORY OF WORLD WAR 2 and the Cavendish volumes should likewise prove useful. Also, this would help a ton, and I know some of the grogs here own it. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them.

http://www.panzerworld.net/review-panzertruppen.html

[ August 18, 2006, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[Kingfish]

Thanks John. The Lexicon site appears to answer my question, at least for the 5Pz.

[George MC]

Hi Kingfish

Pg 151 of Jentz'sPanzertruppen Vol 1 says that "many of the panzer IIIs that were used in the Balkan campaign were still outfitted with the 3.7cm KwK"

Also pg 154 Jentz gives numbers of panzers in the 5th Pz Div as follows:

9 x PzI

40 x PzII

19 x PzIII with 3.7cm cannon

32 x PzIII with 5cm cannon

16 x PzIV

5 x Radio/command panzers

2nd Panzer had:

45 PzII

27 Pz III with 3.7cm cannon

44 PzIII with 5cm cannon

20 PzIV

6 command/radio tanks

Jentz also has a combat report about the action around Tempi.

Hope this helps.

Cheers fur noo

George Mc

[John Kettler]

Kingfish,

Glad you found my post helpful. Evzone speaks and reads Greek, so if you've encountered any material along that line or simply want research help, he'd be happy to assist. He's dying for Greece scenarios and is apparently planning to revoice certain files to Greek, someone else having already done the uniform mods and flags. I gather his relatives fought along the Albanian border.

George Mc,

No substitute for the right references! What I could only approximate, you had by chapter and verse. Thanks for proving me psychic! I knew someone who had Jentz would pop in to help out.

Regards,

John Kettler

[ August 20, 2006, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[George MC]

Hi John

Nae bother

Kingfish has helped me out previously - just returning the favour

Cheers fur noo

George

[Kingfish]

Excellent, thanks George.

[The_Enigma]

I read that (cant remember the source) they lost quite a few, if not the large majority of those tanks after that campaign due to transporters being sunk.

lol this little piece of useless knowledge i picked up of any use?

Edit: Seems like am gonner have a whirl reading through those links, cheers

[ August 21, 2006, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: the_enigma ]

[John Kettler]

the_enigma,

That would certainly explain the complete absence of tanks as Barbarossa jumped off. Hard to fight when your Panzers on the bottom of the ocean!

Regards,

John Kettler

[The_Enigma]

Originally posted by John Kettler:

the_enigma,

That would certainly explain the complete absence of tanks as Barbarossa jumped off. Hard to fight when your Panzers on the bottom of the ocean!

Regards,

John Kettler

lol

cant quite understand why they were not slapped on the back of trains and railed home though.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by the_enigma:

cant quite understand why they were not slapped on the back of trains and railed home though.

The vast majority of them in fact were. I have some vague recollection of one shipload being sunk. If that's so, it probably wouldn't have amounted to more than a company's worth, if that much.

Michael

[Andreas]

Nope, they pretty much lost all their tanks, AFAIK, and some guns to boot, as well as some personnel. They were on a ferry trip from Greece to Italy, whence they were to be put on trains. Both ships hit mines laid by HMS Abdiel.

All the best

Andreas