akdavis Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Originally posted by Screeny: Wild guess here but th elast 3 pics in this posting look to me like this are before or just when the nazis were in power...the reason? well despite it are b/w pics it looks to me like they nazis are all dressed in the SA uniform.... Once the nazis were in power (if I remember well after 1933) slowly the SA was becoming less importanted and the SS with the more "military" kind of uniforms got in the picture. Also the military were suddenly in the picture as being the party in power the nazis "governed" the military top. So in general the earlier the pics from Hitler &co the more SA uniform will be a lot seen, the later the pics the more SS and Wehrmacht uniforms will be seen. (Note: after 1933 a lot of people were still in the SA, but they were not more a "political power", so hitler &co didn't really bothered any more much about those masses dressed up in the brwon shirts on a personal basis like in this pics.) gr Screeny Also, there have so far been no pictures of large groups of people. I would expect a post-1933 Nazi function to get the people in the streets in large numbers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Reich Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Originally posted by Mies: Could the bald guy looking to his right on the photo with the crack in it be Mussolini? Mies I thought the same thing. The profile certainly resembles El Duce... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Reich Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Originally posted by Das Reich: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mies: Could the bald guy looking to his right on the photo with the crack in it be Mussolini? Mies I thought the same thing. The profile certainly resembles El Duce... </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 My gramp's wife finally got back to me about the camera. Seems I was way off in how the camera was found and when. Also, the film was already developed with the camera!! here is her exact quote: "Pictures were all developed. They were with the camera. Not the one on display page. Found in an apartment complex in Munich Germany. Spring of 1945 after war ended. Gramps belonged to 546 field artillery. no negatives with it. Camera --- Gramps said you could unleash it & it pulled out like an accordian. He threw the camera away after a few years. He said it was junk. He had it for years, even after he married me. It was a 35 millimeter camera" So there we have it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mies Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Goodale, any more news on the '42-'43 confusion? And which concentration did you Gramp visit? I want to know the whole deal now! Mies 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 based on the above, he arrived in EUROPE in 42/43 (probably late Dec or early Jan). He fought through the war then left in 46. I didn't think to ask him which concentration camp it was. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: based on the above, he arrived in EUROPE in 42/43 (probably late Dec or early Jan). He fought through the war then left in 46. I didn't think to ask him which concentration camp it was. MG, One could not really "arrive in Europe" with a US artillery unit in 1942--it was all Axis occupied. You could arrive in Italy (Salerno invasion) in Sept 1943, but that doesn't seem to be the question here. The Allies invaded Normandy in France June 6, 1944 and reached the outer border of Germany in October, 1944, but they got stuck there until a breakout began in March 1945, after which Germany was quickly overrun. Germany surrendered in early May of 1945. So, the likelihood is that these pictures would have been found in 1945, probably after March, possibly also after the war was over (up to 1946), before your (wife's?) grandfather came home. If you could pin down the city in which they were found, that might provide an important clue as to where there were taken and help a great deal with identifying some of the figures in the pictures. So it might be worth asking gramps one more set of questions. At some point, also, it seems like we should seek help from an expert in the history of the early Nazi party. And if that one picture was separate and taken later, that might explain the disparity in time-frame--the later Hitler vs. the Nazis of the earlier SA period. [ February 04, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screeny Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 As some extra ideas on my idea that this pictures (at least the last 3 in this kind of "bierstube" or "Bierkeller"). Let's not forget that the NSDAP (nazi party) originated in MUNICH!!!. The more I look at this pics the more I'm confisnced these are from the time the NSDAP was still one of the new, small non-conventional political parties. If I remember well after WW1 there were a lot of this kind of extreme right or left wing parties in Germany. It does like some kind of party rally in the early days of the NSDAP, and those pics might actually be taken in Munich..... The plot thickens I can scan some pics from a book I have from both the pre-1933 era and the post-1933 era, once you see them you can plainly see what i mean with the different style of uniforms. If only I knew how to insert pics in this forum.....any one ?? gr Screeny 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdavis Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: My gramp's wife finally got back to me about the camera. Seems I was way off in how the camera was found and when. Also, the film was already developed with the camera!! here is her exact quote: "Pictures were all developed. They were with the camera. Not the one on display page. Found in an apartment complex in Munich Germany. Spring of 1945 after war ended. Gramps belonged to 546 field artillery. no negatives with it. Camera --- Gramps said you could unleash it & it pulled out like an accordian. He threw the camera away after a few years. He said it was junk. He had it for years, even after he married me. It was a 35 millimeter camera" So there we have it. 546th Field Artillery Battalion was attached to the 82nd Airborne from 10-17 April 1945, just FYI. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 You have to either use the URL buttom below the text entry area and enter a URL link to the pic somewhere on the web, or place the pic o the web and use the IMAGE button below the text entry area and in the popup box paste the full URL to the picture on the web (this option actually puts ther pic in the thread, and the first option creates a link to it on the web) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 Akdavis, that makes me think of how special it would be to gramp if I could somehow track every movement of the 546th AB through WWII and create some sort of scrap book with a timeline of what gramp did. With his help I could add written narrative of his memories and then throw copies of the photos in at the end since that's when he found them. Or maybe pepper the book with pictures showing some of the key figures that were responsible for the war and it's atrocities. Nobody has ever taken an interest in Gramp's WWII experiences except me, he never talked about it. I bet it would mean a lot to him and to our family to have a record of that history. Is there ANY way to actually get that kind of information, such as unit movement, battles fought, maybe even casualties taken (names of soldiers too)?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 The 2nd pic posted does somewhat resemble Adolf Galland. If it is Galland then it would be possible the fat guy looking at the camera in the background could be Goering. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Originally posted by Mies: Could the bald guy looking to his right on the photo with the crack in it be Mussolini? Mies Not Mussolini, nope. Don't know who it is, but it's not il duce. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 MasterGoodale...The WW2 546th Artillery was an automatic weapons anti-aircraft battalion...they had 40mm and 50-cal quad weapons. No long toms there. Could we be speaking of a number mixup? Here's their veteran's association address: 546th Anti Aircraft Artillery Battalion, Btry B Mr. Roger A. Pahl 623 9th Avenue SW Cedar Rapids, IA 52404-1950 (319) 365-9355 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 hmmmm. . that's strange. This came straight from my gramp's wife so I'm sure she either asked him, looked at his card (which I saw and that number seems correct), or she just knows off of the top of her head. I will have to recheck that. Is it possible there could also be a 546th Artillery Battallion?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSColonel_131st Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Gunnergoz, what makes you so sure it isn't him? I just had a look trough the web for Mussolini Pics, and the profile is quite the same. But then, the original photo is not really sharp. I'm not saying it got to be him, but what makes you so sure of the opposite? One thing that is strange, though, is that that guy has no medals or awards visible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 I just found this under "Attachments" for the 82nd Airborne Division: "546th FA Bn (155mm Gun) 10 Apr 45-17 Apr 45" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdavis Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Originally posted by gunnergoz: MasterGoodale...The WW2 546th Artillery was an automatic weapons anti-aircraft battalion...they had 40mm and 50-cal quad weapons. No long toms there. Could we be speaking of a number mixup? Here's their veteran's association address: 546th Anti Aircraft Artillery Battalion, Btry B Mr. Roger A. Pahl 623 9th Avenue SW Cedar Rapids, IA 52404-1950 (319) 365-9355 Hmm...the reference I found list a 546th Field Artillery Battalion with 155s. Here is the text: Beginning on 4 April 1945, the 82d Airborne Division held defensively along the west bank of the Rhine River facing the Ruhr Pocket. Enemy contact ended on 18 April. Attachments during this period were as follows: 341st Infantry, 4 April only. 417th Field Artillery Group, 4-25 April. 672d Field Artillery Battalion (155-How.), 4-14 April. 805th Field Artillery Battalion (155-How.), 5-17 April. 746th Field Artillery Battalion (8"-How.), 4-25 April. 541st Field Artillery Battalion (155 Gun), 4-25 April. 546th Field Artillery Battalion (155 Gun), 10-17 April. 790th Field Artillery Battalion (8"-How.), 4-14 April. 942d Field Artillery Battalion (155-How.), 19-24 April. 74th Field Artillery Battalion (105-How.), 18-25 April. 661st Field Artillery Battalion (8"-How.), 18-25 April. 294th Field Artillery Observation Battalion, 25 April only. 3d Co., 22d Belgian Fusilier Battalion, 21-25 April. 12th TD Group (headquarters only), 18-25 April. 1130th Engineer © Group, 25-26 April. 74th Chemical Generator Company, 4-21 April.and here is the link: http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/documents/AbnOps/TABB.htm [ February 04, 2003, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: akdavis ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Good research, MasterGoodale. My guess (I'm not near my primary sources at the moment) is that the 546th, like a lot of AAAW battalions at the end of the war, was converted to field artillery to support the final drive on the German homeland. By then, there were darn few German aircraft to defend against. A lot of other AA units were broken up and their troops were fed into the infantry as replacements...gulp! I know that the 546th went on in later years to be re-assigned to AA work. Other battalions in that number series were also AAAW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 That's really interesting, because he never mentioned AAA. I'll have to ask him about that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 OK, I looked up my primary reference tool (Stanton, Shelby; World War II Order of Battle...an encyclopedic reference book for all US Army WW2 ground force organizatins, battalion through division): 546th Field Artillery Battalion (155mm Gun, Truck-Drawn); Organized 18 Apr 44, Cp. Shelby Miss.; Demobilized 5 Jan 46, Cp. Patrick Henry, Va. Left US via NY port of entry/exit 3 Jan 45; Battle credits = France-ETO 16 Jan 45. August, 1945 location was Baumholder, Germany. BTW, there was also a 546th AAAW Battalion active during the same period, hence the confusion entirely on my part. Hope this helps, sorry for the red herring about AAAW...that's what happens when you use Google instead of a known reliable source! :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 Thanks Gunner! hat's kind of cool about the Baumholder, Germany assignment because I was stationed there for 2 years as an infantry medic! 90-92! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Originally posted by RSColonel_131st: Gunnergoz, what makes you so sure it isn't him? I just had a look trough the web for Mussolini Pics, and the profile is quite the same. But then, the original photo is not really sharp. I'm not saying it got to be him, but what makes you so sure of the opposite? One thing that is strange, though, is that that guy has no medals or awards visible. Nothing hard except my (admittely imperfect) memory of seeing lots of photos of il duce. I'm originally Italian-born and have had access to a lot of Italian language books and sources over the years. But then, as the previous exchange may bear out, I'm not always right. But he still doesn't look like Mussolini to me... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by Screeny: As some extra ideas on my idea that this pictures (at least the last 3 in this kind of "bierstube" or "Bierkeller"). Let's not forget that the NSDAP (nazi party) originated in MUNICH!!!. The more I look at this pics the more I'm confisnced these are from the time the NSDAP was still one of the new, small non-conventional political parties. If I remember well after WW1 there were a lot of this kind of extreme right or left wing parties in Germany. It does like some kind of party rally in the early days of the NSDAP, and those pics might actually be taken in Munich..... The plot thickens I can scan some pics from a book I have from both the pre-1933 era and the post-1933 era, once you see them you can plainly see what i mean with the different style of uniforms. If only I knew how to insert pics in this forum.....any one ?? gr Screeny i would vote for pre-1933 as well... and the one dude does look like mussolini... sort of... but it isn't... and the other dude is almost certainly _not_ galland... think earlier in the party's hystory... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by akdavis: Hmm...the reference I found list a 546th Field Artillery Battalion with 155s. Here is the text: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Beginning on 4 April 1945, the 82d Airborne Division held defensively along the west bank of the Rhine River facing the Ruhr Pocket. Enemy contact ended on 18 April. Attachments during this period were as follows: 341st Infantry, 4 April only. 417th Field Artillery Group, 4-25 April. 672d Field Artillery Battalion (155-How.), 4-14 April. 805th Field Artillery Battalion (155-How.), 5-17 April. 746th Field Artillery Battalion (8"-How.), 4-25 April. 541st Field Artillery Battalion (155 Gun), 4-25 April. 546th Field Artillery Battalion (155 Gun), 10-17 April. 790th Field Artillery Battalion (8"-How.), 4-14 April. 942d Field Artillery Battalion (155-How.), 19-24 April. 74th Field Artillery Battalion (105-How.), 18-25 April. 661st Field Artillery Battalion (8"-How.), 18-25 April. 294th Field Artillery Observation Battalion, 25 April only. 3d Co., 22d Belgian Fusilier Battalion, 21-25 April. 12th TD Group (headquarters only), 18-25 April. 1130th Engineer © Group, 25-26 April. 74th Chemical Generator Company, 4-21 April.and here is the link: http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/documents/AbnOps/TABB.htm </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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