Vehicle hide command discussion

[FFE]

What action does the hide command perform for vehicles? To the best of my knowledge it simply means the vehicle idles “low.”

I performed a 100 meter open ground speed test to verify. I placed 6 T-34’s on an open map, 3 hidden the other 3 not hidden. First observation indicates as soon as the player orders the vehicle to move, the vehicle loses the hidden toggle even with a pause order. A player cannot order a vehicle to move & hide like foot troops. The speed test results do not indicate an “at start” hidden vehicle will be slower in a 100 meter fast dash. In quite a few of the tests, the previously hidden vehicles out performed the non-hidden vehicles.

Conclusion from the speed test: coming out of hide does not influence a vehicle’s ability to accelerate.

Another use for hide might be to prevent vehicles from firing at spotted enemy units. I created another test scenario to validate this. I placed 6 T-34’s in scattered woods and turn on their hide. I placed 8 PSW 222’s at 400-500 meters and ordered them to move fast at a parallel angle to the hidden T-34’s.

T-34’s 20 meters deep in the scattered woods, hidden: 6 T-34’s spotted – direct fire commenced by both sides

T-34’s 40 meters deep in the scattered woods, hidden: 5 T-34’s spotted – direct fire commenced by both sides

T-34’s 50 meters deep in scattered woods, hidden. 0 T-34’s spotted – PSW’s not spotted while covering 200 meters.

Conclusion: A hidden vehicle will fire at enemy units if presented.

Hide does not seem to offer any logical benefits. It “may” prevent a vehicle being spotted at longer ranges. Yet, this is counter intuitive. If a vehicle is not moving, the driver will not rev the engine. There are a few exceptions concerning vehicle turret rotation speed being based on engine RPM. On a whole the vehicle hide command should not result in a difference with spotting at range since the vehicular noise will not be a significant factor. I cannot think of any action a vehicle crew can take to make their vehicle “more quiet” other than reducing engine RPM. Yet, a stationary vehicle will tend to be at low RPM, anyway.

A possible abusive reason to use the hide command but without any specific testing: planes “seem” to attack hidden vehicles less frequently. If my observations since CMBO are correct, this would be illogical. Why would a vehicle “noise” factor influence a plane's attack routine?

I propose the vehicle hide command be remove.

[Bone_Vulture]

In battles other than ME's, the hidden vehicles placed in foliage are thought to be camouflaged with canvas nets and the like - thus they receive a concealment bonus.

[FFE]

Originally posted by Bone_Vulture:

In battles other than ME's, the hidden vehicles placed in foliage are thought to be camouflaged with canvas nets and the like - thus they receive a concealment bonus.

Great feedback! I'll do some quick testing and get with the results.

Edit for test results:

Axis Attack

8 PSW 222's

vs.

12 hidden T-34's in scattered woods.

All units regular.

Average distances: 500 meters

Scattered wood depth:

@ 20 meters, turn 1: all T-34's spotted

@ 40 meters, turn 1: all T-34's spotted

It does not appear the hide command offers the defending vehicles additional concealment.

[ April 13, 2003, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: FFE ]

[Vanir Ausf B]

Originally posted by FFE:

It does not appear the hide command offers the defending vehicles additional concealment.

I don't think so. AFAIK, the concealment bonus is given to all units that start the game in trees (any type), and remains in effect until they move or fire. The hide order is irrelevant. I believe this is also the case in MEs.

IMO, the hide order for vehicles is completely worthless.

[nirvana]

Maybe the hide command will tell the driver to drive behind a collapsed wall or a big fat tree in need of dieting etc? I guess a hidden vehicle is impossible to hide in an open terrain but can be hidden in a good concealment terrain?

[86smopuim]

u get less 'sound contacts' when enemy vehicles are out of sight and hiding. thats kinda sweet in a ninja kind way.

[Erwin Rommel]

I personally think the hide command for vehicles works just fine..I have set vehicles in a wooded area with a fire arc and have had enemy vehicles drive right by the area my tank is hiding and not even take notice to it.

As long as nothing entered the fire arc i set the tank sat nice and quite and never fired a shot..Now if something entered its arc the it would fire away..ussualy to good effect.

[ April 14, 2003, 07:00 AM: Message edited by: Erwin Rommel ]

[flamingknives]

Try what I may, I can't hide vehicles. A StuG, Hull-down in scattered trees, 800+ metres from any enemy forces is spotted immediately. Hide or cover arcs or both are ineffective.

[Ant]

I thought that the vehicle 'hide' command actually turned the engine off, so no sound contact would be possible. Have to admit that I haven't tested it though, haven't even used it much to be honest.

[Schoerner]

Originally posted by 86smopuim:

u get less 'sound contacts' when enemy vehicles are out of sight and hiding. thats kinda sweet in a ninja kind way.

I also made this experience already in CMBO.

Open terrain, Challenger 15-20m beside a street, but behind a ridge - hidden.

SPW drives 15-20 m by - one minute later, a fat mechanized platoon with Sturmtruppen escorted by 2 Panthers passed by,...

My opponent was quite shocked from the efficiency of the hide command.