Alech Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 What kind of support did German Airborne units have in Russia from 41 to 45? What kind of ATGs, inf. guns, AFVs and specialists would be attached to airborne formations? -Alech 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 StuGs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Panzerfaust, Panzerschreck, Pueppchen, 81mm Mortar (had a shorter barrel than the standard version), 105mm Nebelwerfer, 12cm Granatenwerfer 42, Pz B 41 (the gunshield was removed to save weight and it was fitted on a light alloy cradle with ballon tires) Pak36/37 75mm LG 40 10.5cm LG 40 A typical Fallschirmjäger division would include an Artillery Regiment, an Anti-Tank Battalion, a Signals Battalion, a Medical Battalion, and an Engineer Battalion. There was also an SS Fallschirmjäger Battalion (which started off as a penal unit). If you're looking for information on any particular unit I can try to look it up for you. [ August 10, 2004, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: Red Dog ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by redwolf: StuGs Did they actually have any organic tank support (or any other vehicle for that matter) at all? I'd always assumed any tank support would have been assigned from other units. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alech Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by Red Dog: If you're looking for information on any particular unit I can try to look it up for you. Not really. I'm just trying to get a feel for what sort of support I could realistically add to an over strength Fallschirmjäger company in quick battles. Right now I'm thinking one standard company with a StuG and 2 snipers as support, but I'm curious as to what other units I could attach. I'm assuming they had some sort of MGs as well? -Alech 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by Alech: Right now I'm thinking one standard company with a StuG and 2 snipers as support, but I'm curious as to what other units I could attach. I'm assuming they had some sort of MGs as well? -Alech MG 34 or MG 42. A good rule of thumb would be to think of wether or not it could be dropped by parachute or glider, and how easily could it be moved once on the ground by manpower alone. They were usually equipped with the best that was available that they could carry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David I Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Alech, As a general rule Fallschirmjager Units were generously supplied with mortars of the 81mm and 120mm variety. A Battalion in 43/44 would have 6 or 8 81mm and 4 120mm. At Division level a Mortar Battalion was attached with 24 to 36 120mm mortars for support of the line battalions. Additionally they were generously with Panzer Schrecks and Panzer Fausts. David I 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by Red Dog: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by redwolf: StuGs Did they actually have any organic tank support (or any other vehicle for that matter) at all? I'd always assumed any tank support would have been assigned from other units. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by redwolf: Remember, the Fallschirmjaeger didn't hunt any parachutes after Krete, and afterwards they were very capable infantry worth reinforcing to get some job done. That's a very comon misconception... July 12, 1943 1st Para Division parachuted into the Catania sector of Sicily. Sept 1943 Parachute operation by 4th Battalion of the Assault Regiment to take out the headquarters of the Italian Army in Monte Rotondo. Sept 1943 Para Training Battalion made a glider assault to release Mussolini. Sept 1943 2nd Battalion made a parachute drop to capture the island of Elba. Nov 1943 Parachute opertaion by 1st Battalion, 2nd Para Regiment to capture the island of Leros. May 1944 SS 500th Para Battalion made a combined parachute and glider drop to capture Marshal Tito at Drvar in Yugoslavia. Dec 1944 3rd and 5th Para Divisions along with the SS 500th Para Battalion and elements of The Brandenburg Regiment made a parachute drop durring the Ardennes Offensive, but failed to cut the Eupen-Malmedy road. Nothing on the grand scale of Krete certainly, but they weren't exactly stuck in the mud for the rest of the war either... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alech Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by Red Dog: Nothing on the grand scale of Krete certainly, but they weren't exactly stuck in the mud for the rest of the war either... But no drops in Russia, right? I was under the impression that they functioned as "elite" infantry in Russia. Now, other then StuGs, what sort of AFVs would you see supporting them? -Alech 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by Alech: But no drops in Russia, right?From what I've heard, many of them dropped dead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by Alech: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Red Dog: Nothing on the grand scale of Krete certainly, but they weren't exactly stuck in the mud for the rest of the war either... But no drops in Russia, right? I was under the impression that they functioned as "elite" infantry in Russia.</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by Red Dog: Dec 1944 3rd and 5th Para Divisions along with the SS 500th Para Battalion and elements of The Brandenburg Regiment made a parachute drop durring the Ardennes Offensive, but failed to cut the Eupen-Malmedy road.I think you'll find that the actual drop was substantially less grandiose than two divs + an independant bn + some brandenburgers. Did the Germans ever have the capability to lift 2+ divs at once? Regards JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by JonS: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Red Dog: Dec 1944 3rd and 5th Para Divisions along with the SS 500th Para Battalion and elements of The Brandenburg Regiment made a parachute drop durring the Ardennes Offensive, but failed to cut the Eupen-Malmedy road.I think you'll find that the actual drop was substantially less grandiose than two divs + an independant bn + some brandenburgers. Did the Germans ever have the capability to lift 2+ divs at once? Regards JonS </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by Alech: But no drops in Russia, right? I was under the impression that they functioned as "elite" infantry in Russia. Now, other then StuGs, what sort of AFVs would you see supporting them? -Alech I'm not sure if Yugoslavia is considered to be part of the eastern front, but you can certainly recreate the Drvar Campaign with CMBB. As for other AFVs or vehicles in general, it would all depend on what other units were nearby and what they could be assigned from the Corp or Army HQ that they were attached to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Paul Heinrik Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by JonS: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Red Dog: Dec 1944 3rd and 5th Para Divisions along with the SS 500th Para Battalion and elements of The Brandenburg Regiment made a parachute drop durring the Ardennes Offensive, but failed to cut the Eupen-Malmedy road.I think you'll find that the actual drop was substantially less grandiose than two divs + an independant bn + some brandenburgers. Did the Germans ever have the capability to lift 2+ divs at once? Regards JonS </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by FM Paul Heinrik: I wasn't aware or forgot that German paras made a drop during the Battle of the Bulge. That took some balls to do. Seems like it would be a suicide mission due to allied air superiority. That's why they dropped at night. In addition, the weather was pretty bad as well. These factors combined with the inexperienced pilots were a major factor in the failure of the operation. Who knows how the Battle of the Bulge would have turned out if the entire force had dropped near the rally point and secured the crossroads... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by Red Dog: Quite true. The 3rd and 5th Para Divisions were no where near full strength after having fought in Normandy. Hmm. Since you wouldn't take the hint ... Those Divs were near full strength, due to replacements. The quality of the replacements is another matter. Perhaps of more moment for the current discussion is that the 5th FJ was nowhere near the northern flank of the offensive. The 3rd was in the area, but was part of the main offensive and walked everywhere. The SS Para Bn and the Brandenburgers weren't involved in the drop either. http://www.eagle19.freeserve.co.uk/ardennes.htm Regards JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David I Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 JonS, Then who did drop at the Ardennes? It sounds more like a Battalion (+) sized drop that, as usual with night drops, went badly awry. Were they volunteers culled from many FJ formations, or were they based around a Battalion from one Division? DavidI 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I believe that a battalion from the 3rd FJ rode on the back of Peiper's tanks at one point. The parachute drop apparently was scattered from Bonn to the drop zone by inexperienced pilots. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM Paul Heinrik Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Originally posted by Red Dog: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by FM Paul Heinrik: I wasn't aware or forgot that German paras made a drop during the Battle of the Bulge. That took some balls to do. Seems like it would be a suicide mission due to allied air superiority. That's why they dropped at night. In addition, the weather was pretty bad as well. These factors combined with the inexperienced pilots were a major factor in the failure of the operation. Who knows how the Battle of the Bulge would have turned out if the entire force had dropped near the rally point and secured the crossroads... </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Originally posted by David I: JonS, Then who did drop at the Ardennes? It sounds more like a Battalion (+) sized drop that, as usual with night drops, went badly awry. Were they volunteers culled from many FJ formations, or were they based around a Battalion from one Division? DavidI It was a bn raised by Von Der Heydte specifically for that operation. I'm not sure if it even reached full bn strength. The volunteers (in many cases 'volunteers') came from all over the German A/B forces, including the units RD enumerated, but they weren't part of those units when they dropped. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Originally posted by JonS: Hmm. Since you wouldn't take the hint ... Those Divs were near full strength, due to replacements. The quality of the replacements is another matter. Perhaps of more moment for the current discussion is that the 5th FJ was nowhere near the northern flank of the offensive. The 3rd was in the area, but was part of the main offensive and walked everywhere. The SS Para Bn and the Brandenburgers weren't involved in the drop either. http://www.eagle19.freeserve.co.uk/ardennes.htm Regards JonS Going to have to dig out my books this weekend and reread up on this operation... Weren't the SS Para Bn and the Brandenburgers dropped in under the command of Otto Skorzeny? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 No. Skorzenys units drove. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flesh Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Here's an interesting article on FJ operations in Russia. Fallschirmjäger on the Eastern Front 1941-1945 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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