Infantry Movement in Heavy Buildings

[David I]

I was recently playing an IP game, the scenario was set in Berlin 1945. Very heavy built up area. As the Russians I plotted a platoon of SMG squads to advance inside a very large building compartmentalized into smaller "rooms" (for lack of a better word). During the action phase a number of squads and leaders moved outside the building to get into the next "room" :eek: , much to the amusement of the German Machine Gunners who made about half of my guys KIA. I think I said "What the f....?" :confused: and my opponent sent me a thank you message. The odd thing was that some of my squads did move through the walls into the next "room" and some dashed out into the street to be cut up into chutney. This happened a number of times to me and then to my opponent.

I can understand having to move out into the street to get into the next room. I can understand being able to move through walls (doors, blasted holes) into the next room.

What I don't understand is why some of my squads do the one, and some, the other.

What I want to know is what is the rule on this?

Can only one squad at a time move through walls?

How can you tell that your guys are going to move outside during the plot phase? How can you tell that your guys are going to succesfully move through the walls during the plot phase?

If I know my guys are going to take the scenic route I can plan accordingly (smoke, suppression fire on known targets, pinning the names of the squad members on their backs for better post mortum ID).

Boys, help me out here! :confused:

DavidI

[Sergei]

Units can't move from a heavy building to another without exiting. They can, however, move from heavy building to a factory type building directly.

If you're in doubt, place the "move" pointer over the wall. If the line turns red, it's a no go.

[David I]

Sergei,

That seems to make sense. I was using primarily the "E" command to advance to contact, it doesn't turn red. The pavement does turn red from my squads getting cut down, however. I'll try your theory out when I get home and let you know.

Thanks.

David

[throwdjohn]

I think squads should be able to move thru walls. IRL they were able to blow holes in walls, why can they not do it in-game?

[Bone_Vulture]

Originally posted by throwdjohn:

I think squads should be able to move thru walls. IRL they were able to blow holes in walls, why can they not do it in-game?

I don't think it can be generalized that all buildings had walls that could be safely demolished, or that all non-engineers (and maybe not even all engineers either) had the explosives to blow holes in the first place.

I do hope that in the future CM engine, attempting to demolish certain obstacles is made possible.

[Brent Pollock]

Somewhere in Tips and Tricks or suchlike, there's a note that Deploying a squad near the unpassable wall can "teleport" a halfsquad to the other side.

I'm too lazy to Search it out...

[David I]

Sergie,

Yep, show-nuf you can't go from 1 heavy Bldg. directly into another. But it DOES NOT show you that it is not a valid move (ie the Move plot indicator does not turn red). Now that I know that I can play a better game. You can't experiment when playing a IP game.

Thanks for the pointer, it got me in the right direction. Now I've got to go, got a lot of letters to write all those Russian mothers.

DavidI

[JAT]

Yes you can. But like Sergei says, you must place the end of your move line ON the wall. If it turns red, you can not go. Pass the end of your line over and over until you are sure it is not red. There are exit points in each building and if each building's exit point match up then those walls are passable. You can test this out with the editor. The buildings have little dots on one wall. Place the dots of each building together and this will make the wall passable.

[Bannon DC]

True as discussed.

But - you can go from heavy building to rubble without exiting.

You can go from heavy building to light (2 story) building without exiting.

Good to know.

[Holman]

The buildings have little dots on one wall. Place the dots of each building together and this will make the wall passable.

Wow--is this true? I've been playing since the CMBO beta demo and I've never known it.

[Soddball]

As far as I'm aware, it's true. That's what I thought the white dots on the brown walls meant, at least.

[Holman]

My understanding is that the white dot just represents the (graphical) front of the building.

I'm sure most people (newbies excepted, perhaps) know that a CM building can be entered from any point regardless of whether the graphics show a door, window, or blank wall there. The case of large buildings right next to large buildings is the only exception. They may only be entered from outside (although rubble next door counts as outside).

Of course, multi-tile factories are considered to be the same interior space. Thus factory buildings can fairly represent long blocks with lateral access between neighboring structures.

[ParaBellum]

It is important to understand that big, heavy buildings in CMBB are, well, big heavy buildings.

When I look at large, older buildings here in Germany it is not unusual to have about 1-1.5m of solid brick between to buildings. Your average infantry group would have a pretty hard time digging through those walls in the CM timeframe.

It should be a bit different for specially equipped/trained troops like engineers, though. If engineers could blow through the walls of heavy buildings it would give them a great advantage in city fighting.

[Sergei]

Blowing holes into walls shouldn't be too easy, though. There should be a chance for failure (room caves in).

[Sergei]

Originally posted by JAT:

Place the dots of each building together and this will make the wall passable.

I just tried this in CMBB editor - didn't seem to do it. Are you sure?

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Bannon DC:

But - you can go from heavy building to rubble without exiting.

Not always true. If the other building has been blown up during the battle, or if it has been created by putting a building at place first and a rubble then, the wall is still impassable. In my experience.

[JAT]

Sergei,

No, not sure now. I was relying on 2 year old memory and looks like it's failed me. I have sent an email to Scott Boston, scenario designer, asking him exactly what it takes to allow for this movement. If there are any scenario designers out their who want to share just how it's done, please help out.

[LeeW]

And then there is sewer movement from one heavy building to another if that option has been turned on when the scenario was designed.

lee