Terence Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Comrades! How common was amphetamine use by German soldiers (Luftwaffe, Heer, SS, Fallschirmjaeger)during the 2nd World War? I have looked on the internet and found a reference to benzedrine as FJ equipment on Feldgrau, and some other mentions in passing to Methedrine as used by the Panzer troops, but not more specific than that. I was wondering if anyone here has any more information. Im not trying to gather string for any given argument, just interested in what, if any, drugs were handed out to which troops during combat. Thanks in advance. Terence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I "know" that German pilots used benzedrine , but i dont know if they used it sometimes or on a daily base. Like to know more about this too, interesting topic. Monty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 Found this on Usenet, and it does contain some unsourced assertions about drug use by forces in WW2, but with but I cannot vouch for it... ___________________________________ THE WASHINGTON TIMES newspaper. It was in the August 22, 1988 issue, pages 18 and 19: FLYING ON AMPHETAMINES IS NO DEPARTURE FROM TRADITION by Susan Katz Keating ...(there was) a recent report that fighter pilots stationed in West Germany are issued both stimulants and sedatives. The administration of drugs to pilots was a featured item on "Monitor," a West German investigative television program. Germans reportedly gasped in horror at the thought of American pilots zipping over Europe, giggling madly while carrying loads of weapons. The civil aviation community in the United States responded with similar expressions of shock: Civilian agencies do not --- ever --- condone flying under the influence of drugs. But the Air Force, which might have been expected to deny or downplay such news, simply shrugged its official blue shoulders and said, in effect, "What's the big deal?" The drugs are indeed issued, says Col. Russell B. Rayman, chief of Air Force Surgeon General's Aerospace Medical Consultants Office. "It's a safe, sensible policy. We've never had an accident with this, and it's smart." The tablets, which are prescribed under strict conditions for pilots on long-distance flights, are credited as lifesavers in a situation known for its enormous physical demands. ... In their use of artificial stimulation, airmen were taking their place in a long military tradition. Historians have speculated that soldiers in the Civil War coped with their arduous marches by using cocaine. The drug is also believed to have been used in the Spanish-American War, and the German's winter march against the Soviet Union during World War II was made possible by amphetamine supplements. "The German army along the Eastern front used Benzedrine extensively," says military historian Shelby Stanton. "They dispensed it to the line troops. Ninety percent of their army had to march on foot, day and night. It was more important for them to keep punching during the Bliztkrieg than to get a good night's sleep. The whole damn army was hopped up. It was one of the secrets of the blitzkrieg." ... Paratroopers and special assault troops in the US Army were also given stimulants in battle in World War II, says Stanton. ... The Army's Special Forces ... were issued amphetamines for use on long-range reconnaisance missions in the Vietnam conflict. Teams infiltrating Laos, for example, were issued survival kits that included 12 Darvon, 24 codeine and six dextroamphetamine tablets per man for each four-day mission. Former Special Forces operatives also report receiving steroid injections before embarking on strenuous, deep-penetration assignments. "Some people were really junked, and had to be taken off the drugs," said one former operative. "They got hooked from the frequency of their missions --- not from breaking into their kits and getting high." Air Force pilots, meanwhile, are issued stimulants only under fishbowl-like conditions governed by the service's surgeon general's office. "We use these medications only under very controlled and special circumstances," says Rayman. Amphetamines are mainly prescribed for fighter pilots on long trans-oceanic missions or on special flights of two or three days' duration requiring frequent in-flight refueling and crossing several time zones. ... Amphetamines are made available to pilots on these high-stress flights, says Rayman, only after a long process of consultation between the aviator's commander and a flight surgeon ... Pills are doled out in small increments before a flight; unused tablets are collected and destroyed afterward. "Pilots are not required to take them," says Rayman. "The great majority don't even use them, but some say they feel good having them available, just in case." ... - Jonathan Jacky, University of Washington, jon@gaffer.rad.washington.edu 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I believe that the ones who took Boo just curled up in a fetal position and tacked an I surrender sticker on their backside. There have been reports of an outbreak somewhere in Ohio, even as late as this year. Be alert! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Jim Boggs: I believe that the ones who took Boo just curled up in a fetal position and tacked an I surrender sticker on their backside. There have been reports of an outbreak somewhere in Ohio, even as late as this year. Be alert! Yes, I was pretty much waiting for something along these lines. sigh... Everyone's just so very, very hurtful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Boo Radley: Yes, I was pretty much waiting for something along these lines. sigh... Everyone's just so very, very hurtful. May I remind you that for every one of these types of threads, there are Fifty "Help, I'm bogged and can't get up" Threads? Hell, even I got bogged in a game. It just seemed so wrong 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Far more mundane, I think it is a safe assumption that copious amounts of alcohol helped cope with stress on all sides as well. An amphetamin, called Pervetin, although falling under the drugs laws in Germany, was delivered in huge quantities to the Wehrmacht. Also, Schoka-Kola (Chocolate with very high caffeine content), and Dextro-Energen (high energy sugar tablets) were used to keep soldiers 'on guard'. For German speakers, here is the thread where I got that information from. I would not see it as a primary source, so the usual healthwarning applies. It is a good forum with some knowledgeable people though. German discussion on drugs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_the_wino Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Jim Boggs: I believe that the ones who took Boo just curled up in a fetal position and tacked an I surrender sticker on their backside. There have been reports of an outbreak somewhere in Ohio, even as late as this year. Be alert! Hey Boo, maybe THIS is the one you should take to BFC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by mike_the_wino: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jim Boggs: I believe that the ones who took Boo just curled up in a fetal position and tacked an I surrender sticker on their backside. There have been reports of an outbreak somewhere in Ohio, even as late as this year. Be alert! Hey Boo, maybe THIS is the one you should take to BFC. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas: Far more mundane, I think it is a safe assumption that copious amounts of alcohol helped cope with stress on all sides as well. An amphetamin, called Pervetin, although falling under the drugs laws in Germany, was delivered in huge quantities to the Wehrmacht. Also, Schoka-Kola (Chocolate with very high caffeine content), and Dextro-Energen (high energy sugar tablets) were used to keep soldiers 'on guard'. For German speakers, here is the thread where I got that information from. I would not see it as a primary source, so the usual healthwarning applies. It is a good forum with some knowledgeable people though. German discussion on drugs As we learned in the Glorious Bren Tripod Thread, not everything that got issued by the army was used. Any sources talk about actual widespread use of Pervitin? Ill say right from the start that for the average German ground pounder, it sounds a LOT more useful than the Bren Tripod... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Holy Cheech and Chong, Batman! I had no idea my name was a slang term for Mary-ju-wanna! :eek: Main Entry: 4 "boo" Function: noun Etymology: origin unknown Date: circa 1959 : MARIJUANA Good grief, it's the final piece of the puzzle that is me! I blame it all on those hippie hep cats, with their bongos and phat pants and bathtub gin and "I like Ike" buttons and zoot suits and body piercings... and stuff! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 Also hamster: Go for the eyes, Boo!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Carr Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Andreas posted: Schoka-Kola (Chocolate with very high caffeine content) This product can still be purchased today. I believe they sell it at Germandeli.com. The tins it comes in even look similar to the ones it was issued in back during the war. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 As we learned in the Glorious Bren Tripod Thread, not everything that got issued by the army was used. Any sources talk about actual widespread use of Pervitin? Ill say right from the start that for the average German ground pounder, it sounds a LOT more useful than the Bren Tripod... [/QB]There is some evidence in that German language thread. I don't know more than that about the topic. It comes up every so often, but understandably is not mentioned a lot in memoirs 'Me and my men charged up the hill and took the position' sounds much more glorious then 'Then I drugged me and my men, and in a Pervitin-inspired fury we charged up that hill and took the position. Afterwards we were like Zombies.' I also doubt many of the men would know what the tablettes contained. I'll ask my grandfather when I see him next. Although he probably stuck to alcohol, knowing my family. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Boo Radley: I blame it all on those hippie hep cats, with their bongos and phat pants and bathtub gin and "I like Ike" buttons and zoot suits and body piercings... and stuff! You can't go through your life blaming everything on Seanachai. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Jack Carr: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Andreas posted: Schoka-Kola (Chocolate with very high caffeine content) This product can still be purchased today. I believe they sell it at Germandeli.com. The tins it comes in even look similar to the ones it was issued in back during the war. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Firefly: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Boo Radley: I blame it all on those hippie hep cats, with their bongos and phat pants and bathtub gin and "I like Ike" buttons and zoot suits and body piercings... and stuff! You can't go through your life blaming everything on Seanachai. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 A few days a ago there was in Finnish TV a documentary about a man who was hooked on drugs for over 60 years after having been "exposed" to them during in the service during WWII. He was able to shake the habit at the age of 71. The use of Pervitin and other drugs to enhance endurance and stamina was apparently quite widespread in the Finnish army, especially during times of extreme activity. And it was organized and controlled by the Army itself. Not unsurprisingly the documentation of it has not been widely publicized. The Finnish LRRP troops for example used drugs on their long hikes behind enemy lines. [ September 25, 2003, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Tero ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Carr Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Andreas posted: I know - they probably just go rid of the Hakenkreuz and the collectible pictures of 'Heroes of the 3rd Reich LOL! Can you imagine the grenadiers at the front being given a tin of chocolate and then trading Knights Cross winner cards with their kamerades...It would have given the Third Reich a whole new twist. No pun intended. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Jack Carr: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Andreas posted: I know - they probably just go rid of the Hakenkreuz and the collectible pictures of 'Heroes of the 3rd Reich LOL! Can you imagine the grenadiers at the front being given a tin of chocolate and then trading Knights Cross winner cards with their kamerades...It would have given the Third Reich a whole new twist. No pun intended. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Terence: Sure. More than a few of them were young guys who probably would have loved the excitement of a trading card game. Also if you are as blitzed on schnapps and pervitin as some people are suggesting, you'll probably do just about anything to pass the time. In a frontline environment, a game of Skat is much more rewarding. If you start collecting anything, you implicitly make assumptions about your future. A game of Skat lasts 2-5 minutes, so it is more likely you are still around by the end of it. Originally posted by Terence: Andreas. Thanks for offering to ask your grandfather. Much appreciated. NP - will be a while though. Originally posted by Terence: Any primary or secondary sources that would confirm massive and consistent deliveries of pervitin, methedrine or benzedrine to the German armed forces? Or any suggestions where to look? Email Shelby Stanton, if he is still around. I just googled for him, and he seems a serious historian, so I doubt he would just throw out the claims he made in the WashPo article. He must have sources for this. I am not aware of any studies - the responses in the thread on the German forum lead me to believe there is nothing or very little in German as well. There is one chap there who is a walking/posting encyclopedia, and he did not butt in. I think if there was something, he would have found it. Flimsy and grasping at straws, I know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Terence is a "Bored of the Rings" Grog... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 This is neither a primary or secondary source, but I have come across abundant rumors that the German infantry were fed amphetamines during their extensive hikes across the Russian and Ukrainian countryside in the summer of '41 in lieu of food often. No idea what they gave the horses. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Originally posted by Jack Carr: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Andreas posted: I know - they probably just go rid of the Hakenkreuz and the collectible pictures of 'Heroes of the 3rd Reich LOL! Can you imagine the grenadiers at the front being given a tin of chocolate and then trading Knights Cross winner cards with their kamerades...It would have given the Third Reich a whole new twist. No pun intended. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Originally posted by Scarhead: IIRC there are stories of another drug added to the rations to lower their sexual appetite. Dunno more about it.Probably saltpeter (potassium nitrate; sometimes sodium nitrate). I'd reckon every army in the history of the world has been rife with this rumor. It continues today despite repeated statements by scientists and doctors that it has no such properties. If the men were experiencing a lack of sexual appetite, it was most likely a combination of exhaustion, stress, and a lack of stimulating females. A good bath and a couple days rest followed by some attractive company seems to have enabled most men to overcome whatever sexual disabilities they might have been temporarily experiencing. Michael [ September 26, 2003, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: Michael Emrys ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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