Biltong's Campaign Rules - Last Lap

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

I have just discovered and read the thread (not in its entirey though), got the PDF version of the rules (vs 1.6) (is Excell striclty necessary? I might get a copy from work)

I have seen that there is a Player Guide in the cooking and that Rulse vs 2.0 are almost ready to be released.

All this seems GRANDIOSE!! and I am eager to give it a try (knowing already that I'll be hooked!)

Any hint or advice in order to kick it off?

Please, also reply via email: seahawk-vfa201@wanadoo.fr

Thanks a lot: it should be part of CMBB!!!!

Print the Rules, get the first Random Number and read Parameter 1... carry on doing that with the other parameters and send us AAR's once in a while...

Welcome

Biltong

[ February 04, 2003, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[Kasei]

One more BCR fan here

Biltong, could you send me that Players' guide? Thanks in advance. Waiting eagerly for the 2.0 version.

kasei@ya.com

I have one newbie question though. If I lose one of my tanks from the core force, do I just lose it forever, or do I get a replacement tank and replacements for the dead crewmen?

cheers,

Kasei

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Peterk:

> Please oh please allow it t o work on a Mac

Of course it will work on a Mac!

If it is Java: no problem! Run it on OS X

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Kasei:

One more BCR fan here

Biltong, could you send me that Players' guide? Thanks in advance. Waiting eagerly for the 2.0 version.

kasei@ya.com

I have one newbie question though. If I lose one of my tanks from the core force, do I just lose it forever, or do I get a replacement tank and replacements for the dead crewmen?

cheers,

Kasei

Hi Kasei, Welcome!

Player Guide should be out late this coming week-end (8/9 Feb)(touch wood)

as for your question:

58 Normal Replacements (v2.0)

"After each battle the whole Battle Group (including the Battle Group Armor & Attached Units) get replacements, except when there is an Allied Counter or an Axis Immediate Attack."

[ February 04, 2003, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[Aaron]

Originally posted by SuperSulo:

Yes, "Map damage" definitly slows down the game. I *think* it even slows down the turn processing, all those craters seems to give the TacAI alot more to think about (available cover and so on). On my slow PC I use "Medium damage" as max, unless the map/battle is very small.

I don't use the Casualties field for the same reason. I can run a big (2000 pts) battle on my machine no problemo, but if its a big battle with 50% casualties its almost unplayable.

Aaron

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Aaron:

I don't use the Casualties field for the same reason. I can run a big (2000 pts) battle on my machine no problemo, but if its a big battle with 50% casualties its almost unplayable.

Aaron

Aaron, Never knew that...

I'll warn the players in a rules note

Biltong

Guy's - I'm being swanped with e-mails requesting the Players Guide...If you'll hold on for a bit I'll finish it and have it posted for download... nearly there

[Apache]

Hi Biltong,

Think I was half asleep when I wrote the map question, can't understand it myself now

It's just the use of the term Force Size when working out what map size to use (37?). Is it a) the size of YOUR force (e.g. the points you roll up) or the size of the QB Battle setting?

My Battalion version is all but done now. It will go to version 2 soon (once I have read and re-read the rules and notes). It contains:

1) Amended rules for battalion level actions (up to).

2) Appendix to set the battle sizes for both Heer and and SS Mech Bn

3) Appendix detailing the %age of points CMBB will normally allow you to spend on different unit categories (dependant of the Force Mix)

4) Modifed Experience Gain chart to speed up process (necessary at Bn level)

5) Major Action appendix

6) SS and Heer unit availability lists to aid purchase (which combine as you experience gain)

7) Vehicle availability charts 41-45

I'll send you v1.9 tomorrow.

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Rolled up all parameters, getting ready for first battle on 22 Jjune 1941

So my Battle Group (my onw men) are the Motorized Inf. Co, a Panzer IIc, a Panzer IIIG and a PZ IVE, right?

To these units I add the task force which will be generated each time by the discard-QB, and I will then try to buy as much as possible with my rolled points in the real battle.

Got it right?

Then to my Battle Group I might have additional units for which I'll keep record as per the original Battle Group?!

I hope I got all rigth.

Wish me luck: Axis Assault is my first battle

[BritishBulldog]

Ok, I have been trying the rules but am getting a bit stuck when it comes to deciding what goes in my task force and how many points the initial task force selection gets.

Which figure do I use to run the auto selection QB for the task force: the taks force total, the purchase points total, the provisional force size or the actual force size ? Or none of the above ?

Regards

Matt Penfold

[ZealotBurner]

BritishBulldog, I use the provisional force size. That way I get a good variety of units and is one less parameter to change when I start up the "real" battle.

The nice thing about these rules is to remember that they are open to change. If something doesn't make sense to you, either research it on the forum here, or just make something up.

A couple of games and you will know if you made a good choice or not, if you made a good choice come here and post it.

[Eden Smallwood]

Originally posted by Aaron:

I don't use the Casualties field for the same reason. I can run a big (2000 pts) battle on my machine no problemo, but if its a big battle with 50% casualties its almost unplayable.

Do you understand that 4000pts w/ 50% casualties gives you an on map force size of 4000pts, not 2000pts?

Eden

[Eden Smallwood]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Peterk:

> Please oh please allow it t o work on a Mac

Of course it will work on a Mac!

If it is Java: no problem! Run it on OS X </font>

[Apache]

Seahawk - Just to be sure, you should only buy up to the points value you rolled in the various categories which may be less than CMBB allows. AND, you generally select your units from the Task Force Offerings that were generated by the QB. If you have points left in a category you can spend them in that category.

BB - IIRC the idea is that you select your Task Force using the parameters from the sheet, including the points value you will ultimately set when you play the real thing.

Biltong,

Two other minor points:

1) Sure we've done this before but I've lost it. When we have fog should we have any wind above breeze? I must admit I have added a -8 modifier to the wind roll sections whenever FOG is present. That defaults me to still. Views?

2) Another modification I've added for the Bn version is for the battle type. If I roll a 9 or 10 (Allied Assault) I also roll again and if the result is a 8+ (might change to 9) the battle is an 'Over-run'. This simulates an Allied over-run of a main Axis defensive position with all the arty pieces being on-map, plenty of fortifications and well dug in. While out of sequence I played one the other day which was excellent. Might be worth looking at a modifier to ensure arty (ALL of which MUST be on map) is pushed to the high scores to allow at least the purchase of a battery (4) of 75mm or 105mm.

[ February 04, 2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Apache ]

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Apache:

...It's just the use of the term Force Size when working out what map size to use (37?). Is it a) the size of YOUR force (e.g. the points you roll up) or the size of the QB Battle setting?

'Force Size' is the parameter name in the QB generator. After you rolled up your Purchase Points you add them up and get a Total Purchase Points. This is then converted via a formula to cater for the different Battle Types (Assault etc) into a Provisional Force Size. You round this up to the nearest Force Size and that: Force Size is what you enter into the QB generator parameter with the same name.

To answer your question: Map Size is determined (among other modifiers) by Force Size.

BCR uses the QB generator parameter names as is, so that you will always now where to enter what. (I hope)

My Battalion version is all but done now....

Got your mail - reply in your inbox... Impressive!! Going to 'steal' some ideas for 42

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

Rolled up all parameters, getting ready for first battle on 22 Jjune 1941

So my Battle Group (my onw men) are the Motorized Inf. Co, a Panzer IIc, a Panzer IIIG and a PZ IVE, right?

Right!

To these units I add the task force which will be generated each time by the discard-QB, and I will then try to buy as much as possible with my rolled points in the real battle.

Got it right?

Right! X 2

Then to my Battle Group I might have additional units for which I'll keep record as per the original Battle Group?!

I hope I got all rigth.

Right! X 3!!

Wish me luck: Axis Assault is my first battle

Good Luck & Enjoy!! Also a good idea to get a lawyer at this stage

Biltong

[Biltong]

Originally posted by BritishBulldog:

[QB] Ok, I have been trying the rules but am getting a bit stuck when it comes to deciding what goes in my task force and how many points the initial task force selection gets.

Which figure do I use to run the auto selection QB for the task force: the taks force total, the purchase points total, the provisional force size or the actual force size ? Or none of the above ?

Regards

Matt Penfold[/QB

Force Size.

Obviously you’ll get more units/points to choose from than you need, but that’s just because I’m nice

In actual fact you’ll get a lot of repetition of units and all in all it works out well. Most of the times the generated units will be enough to spend all your purchase points on, but sometimes you’re lucky and there are more points then generated units – esp. in Arty or Vehicles, and you get to choose what you want to buy (within the 30% rarity constriction).

I have just amended the players Guide to say: “Use all the parameters that you have rolled up and calculated, including ‘Force Size’. “

Enjoy!

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Eden Smallwood:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Aaron:

I don't use the Casualties field for the same reason. I can run a big (2000 pts) battle on my machine no problemo, but if its a big battle with 50% casualties its almost unplayable.

Do you understand that 4000pts w/ 50% casualties gives you an on map force size of 4000pts, not 2000pts?

Eden </font>

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Apache:

Two other minor points:

1) Sure we've done this before but I've lost it. When we have fog should we have any wind above breeze? I must admit I have added a -8 modifier to the wind roll sections whenever FOG is present. That defaults me to still. Views?

2) Another modification I've added for the Bn version is for the battle type. If I roll a 9 or 10 (Allied Assault) I also roll again and if the result is a 8+ (might change to 9) the battle is an 'Over-run'. This simulates an Allied over-run of a main Axis defensive position with all the arty pieces being on-map, plenty of fortifications and well dug in. While out of sequence I played one the other day which was excellent. Might be worth looking at a modifier to ensure arty (ALL of which MUST be on map) is pushed to the high scores to allow at least the purchase of a battery (4) of 75mm or 105mm.

Apache,

1) Fixed some time/couple of versions? ago… check v2.0 I sent you"

43 WIND

Fog/Rain -4; Fog -5; Thick Fog –6

2) The battle that you play is an ‘Over-run’ battle, Right? Not after the over run took place.

“…with all the arty pieces being on-map, plenty of fortifications and well dug in.“ - OK

Lots of on board arty – OK

I would imagine you give the Allies a lot of extra points or they will get slaughtered? How do you do this? Some sort of formula?

What makes this different from an Allied Assault, except for the onboard arty? Something here, but it needs a bit more flesh.

What would be the purpose? How to defend till death? How to run/escape overwhelming odds? Obviously it provides variety, but the players will hate it, because it will stuff up their Favor and Experience… It might have to be ‘punishment’ for some transgression/failure? Just, very bad luck? It is real – did happen, but I still need a handle on it. Gimme more…

[Peterk]

Hi Biltong,

Hate to burden you with more work, but I was thinking of adding a little something cool to my Java tool. I plan on maintaining a battle history for the player's group and instead of just saying Battle 1, Battle 2 etc...I thought it would be kind of neat to stick a geographical location along with it, so I could say "Battle 2 - near Russia/German border", "Battle 6 - Outskirts of Grozno", stuff like that.

When you work out the modifiers, are you following the history of one particular division or battalion on the South front? If yes could you toss me a few (maybe 20 or so) city/town names along with the months that the real guys were there?

On the side, development is going well - it's a total blast to work on.

For anyone who is interested, it will work on Java 1.3 and up. Windows people will probably have to do a small download (I will post a link), Mac people will probably have to write a small start-up script themseleves (I will give instructions on what to do) because I'm not too familiar with that platform.

p.

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Eden Smallwood:

Do you understand that 4000pts w/ 50% casualties gives you an on map force size of 4000pts, not 2000pts?

Its not a question of points but of total number of units. At 50% casualties I get twice as many squads each with 5 or so dead guys. More squads = more time. The extra time taken isn't linear either. Its taking three minutes to run the turn (compared to less than one for 0% casualties). Add a minute for the movie and a 30 turn battle takes a minimum of 2 hours to run.

You would get the same effect just by splitting all the squads into teams.

Aaron

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Peterk:

Hate to burden you with more work, but I was thinking of adding a little something cool to my Java tool. I plan on maintaining a battle history for the player's group and instead of just saying Battle 1, Battle 2 etc...I thought it would be kind of neat to stick a geographical location along with it, so I could say "Battle 2 - near Russia/German border", "Battle 6 - Outskirts of Grozno", stuff like that.

I've been trying to come up with something similar. I've been tracing 1 PzGrp. Here are some places and dates. I don't have dates for every location.

Lutsk-June 22

Dubnio-June 25

Berdichev

Zhitomir-July 9

Kiev (outskirts only, bypassed)

Uman-July 8-16

Kirovograd

Denepropetrovsk-August 25-Sept 4 (kinda bypassed)

The Dnieper river crossing

Lubny(closing Kiev pocket)-Sept 16

Stalino

The Mius river crossing-Sept 20

Taganrog-Oct 17

Rostov-Nov 20

After this point 1 PzGr retreated to behind the Mius.

There are some good maps on West Point's webpage that show the movement of the various german armies and their soviet conterparts.

http://www.dean.usma.edu/history/dhistorymaps/WWIIPages/WWIIEurope/WWIIEToC.htm

Aaron

[ February 05, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]

[Apache]

Main use of over-run is merely to change the type of battle really, I don't see players being more penalised by this type of battle compared to any other assault/attack. The main difference is that the player has a bias towards on-map guns (4 would be a good representation I would suggest, esp on a small map). These guns would obviously be in the direct fire mode and perhaps less effective, not ineffective thought. Players may perhaps use 1 x 105MM to represent a nearby battery training its guns to assist.

Emphasis is also on heavily dug in positions with lots of trenches, wire, pill boxes, minefields, PAK/FLAK, MGs and TRPs etc. It's something I use and it works well, just thought it might add another variation to 42. Anyone who thinks the Allies will find taking out such a position a piece of cake drop me a line for a PBEM No problem if you're not inclined to take it up.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Peterk:

...I thought it would be kind of neat to stick a geographical location along with it, so I could say "Battle 2 - near Russia/German border", "Battle 6 - Outskirts of Grozno", stuff like that....

Hi Peter,

Nice idea, but not practical. We don't know if a battle (no 7 or 9 or whatever) will be a small rural fight or a large inner city battle. Also no idea how many battles in a campaign - too many variables.

... are you following the history of one particular division or battalion on the South front?

Nope, most parameters based on averages for the whole front. Especially when it comes to terrain. Weather and mayor battles were easier - more definite dates for, say the 1st snow etc etc

We are slowly bringing in specific battles: planning to introduce 5 battles in and around Kiev for 41, but the Battle Group is still just an 'average' of what you could expect on that front at that time. As far as the armor for 41 goes - quite a 'rough' average From 42 onwards I intend to make the armor more historically correct ( 1 light and 1 medium platoon) and there will also be 2 historical battles: Stalingrad and Sevastopol with a total of 20 battles.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Apache:

Main use of over-run is merely to change the type of battle really, I don't see players being more penalised by this type of battle compared to any other assault/attack. The main difference is that the player has a bias towards on-map guns (4 would be a good representation I would suggest, esp on a small map). These guns would obviously be in the direct fire mode and perhaps less effective, not ineffective thought. Players may perhaps use 1 x 105MM to represent a nearby battery training its guns to assist.

Emphasis is also on heavily dug in positions with lots of trenches, wire, pill boxes, minefields, PAK/FLAK, MGs and TRPs etc. It's something I use and it works well, just thought it might add another variation to 42. Anyone who thinks the Allies will find taking out such a position a piece of cake drop me a line for a PBEM No problem if you're not inclined to take it up.

No - I just need more detail. it sounds interesting. From the above I assume?? that you give extra purchase points to Axis fortifications and arty... With the allied points culculated the normal way...? In that case it won't be an over run, but a chicken shoot? Somehow the allies need to get a lot of extra points to give them a chance, surely? E.g.: Allied Force Size = 3 times Axis Force Size?

[Apache]

Best using 2,000 or 3,000 battle settings, leave CMBB points in categories (arty etc) as default (don't roll task force points) restrict purchase of armour to 25% or 50% of what CMBB allows, MUST (perhaps) spend full amount on arty, at least 50-75% of what CMBB allows on fortifications and rest on infantry. It's no Turkey shoot. 2,000 point battle with you on the defence against a Soviet assault gives them 3440. With combined arms or arty for soviets it's quite tough. Could consider giving a 3,000 point force and restricting Axis purchase to 2,000 I suppose. Not had enough time to try the various options yet. It works for me 'as is' (but then I don't use the task force rules as such, I use CMBB allowances, set the force mix according to what I roll up and apply some limiters to what I can spend, slightly different approach.