walpurgis nacht Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I have a good friend who is a professional writer. He is currently writing a work of fiction, totally unrelated to WWII, but happens to have a character that was an officer who worked at Auschwitz. A few questions: 1)Were the SS in charge of the camp at Auschwitz? If not, who was ? 2)How, in german, would you address a mid-low ranking officer in the SS, or an officer in the army group in charge of Auschwitz? I'm sure it depends on what kind of officer, so go ahead and pick one if you like, but make him a mid-low level officer . . .not some big-wig. Serious grogs only please . . .this needs to be accurate. If you can, please cite a reference manual or something so I can confirm it independently. It's not that I don't take your word for it, but in matters of scholarship I cannot take your word for it. Thank you in advance. Walpurgis [ April 28, 2003, 01:31 AM: Message edited by: Walpurgis Night ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 The Waffen SS did not use the term "Herr" when addressing superiors. I don't know if this extended to the Allgemeine SS (who I believe provided concentration camp guards) or not but should provide some interesting discussion. Then again, if your friend is trying to make a fictional concentration camp officer into a hero, I wash my hands of it. I think you may want to provide more info on this "project" if you have any. And please don't refer to any of the scum that worked at Auschwitz as "army officers" because there weren't any. [ April 28, 2003, 02:10 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Björn Eriksson Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 1)Were the SS in charge of the camp at Auschwitz? If not, who was ?I think the Allgemeine SS ran the camps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.E.B Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Walpurgis The Commadant of Auschwitz was a personality-free drone by the name of SS.Sturmbannfuher Rudolf Hoss (note: should be .. above u in fuher & o in Hoss). This piece of dirt was tried and executed at Numemburg. I don't know the answer to your second question, as I don't speak German (I do speak war-movie German though!). Regards A.E.B [ April 28, 2003, 02:29 AM: Message edited by: A.E.B ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 ü hit ALT, then 0252 on the number pad voila - ü Sturmbannführer I think Hoess is the correct spelling, though not Höess. "oe" is the anglicized spelling of ö and some sources on the Net spell it Höss. But was Hoess tried at Nuremburg? He testified, specifically I think against Kaltenbrunner, and gave testimony at how efficient his killing was at Auschwitz - but his trial was in 1947, and he was executed in Auschwitz, not Nuremburg. [ April 28, 2003, 02:29 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.E.B Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Before I forget... There are a number of Jewish sites on the net that have detailed information on the running of Auschwitz. I have linked a few. web page web page web page I agree with Michael on this one: giving these cowardly butcherers military titles is an insult to officers and soldiers - the Waffen SS and many ordinary German units murdered as well - but at least they fought and died on the battlefield. Men like Hoss were breaucrats running factories for killing defenseless humanbeings. Regards A.E.B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoerner Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 A tip for your friend: does he have knowledge about long-time stability of Iron Blue in concrete walls? Without knowing about it, all he can write about Auschwitz has to be fictious anyway... [ April 28, 2003, 04:46 AM: Message edited by: Schoerner ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 Thank you so much for the responses. There is no nazi worship here so please excuse the generic term "officers". For lack of a better term I will use "officer" generically so you can better understand me. I'm not looking for the head of the camp at aushwitz, just some generic officer name. Someone under Hoss . . . a secondary "officer". This is not a real character, it is just providing a background for a character in a story. So now I just need to know, how would, a typical Allgemeine "grunt" working at Auschwitz, address one of Hoss's *officers* in german? Thanks again. [ April 28, 2003, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Walpurgis Night ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by Schoerner: A tip for your friend: does he have knowledge about long-time stability of Iron Blue in concrete walls? Without knowing about it, all he can write about Auschwitz has to be fictious anyway... Thank you for your help Schoerner. He is not writing about Auschwitz. This has nothing to do with WWII. This is simply a character profile. I'm not sure exactly why he needs the info. Perhaps there is an ashamed former Nazi remembering the horrors of auschwitz . . .not sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by Walpurgis Night: So now I just need to know, how would, a typical Allgemeine "grunt" working at Auschwitz, address one of Hoss's *officers* in german? Thanks again. By his rank. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSColonel_131st Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 What would the average low/medium SS Rank be...something along the lines of a company commander in the Wehrmacht? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by Walpurgis Night: 1)Were the SS in charge of the camp at Auschwitz? If not, who was ? 3rd Totenkopf was raised from KZ personnel and is said to have had personnel exchange with the camps. Most guards were HiWis (Hilfswillige, "those willing to help") from Eastern European countries, but I guess there were some (Waffen-) SS personnel to guard the guards. A typical rank of 2nd Lt would then just be addressed as "Untersturmführer". Most readings suggest that sometimes the name of the person was attached "Untersturmführer Meier", but IIRC (from books) SS was not addressed as "Herr U.", though this might still be the case as an act of politeness. rgds Joachim [ April 28, 2003, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Scarhead ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankist Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Here are some ranks: Private=SS Sturmmann PFC=SS Rottenführer NCO=SS Unterscharführer Sergeant=SS Oberscharführer 2nd Lt=SS Untersturmführer 1st Lt=SS Obersturmführer Captain=SS Hauptsturmführer Major=SS Sturmbannführer Lt.Col=SS Obersturmbannführer Colonel=SS Standartenführer (from: The German Army Handbook, by James Lucas) Tankist 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 Tankist, thank you. But, that is for the general army. I found the SS officer's ranking system: http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/orwell/149/rankswaffenss.htm So I can now narrow myself to a very specific question: In German, how would I address an SS-Untersturmführer if I were an SS-Schütze (only answer if you can speak german please). [ April 28, 2003, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Walpurgis Night ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by Scarhead: 3rd Totenkopf was raised from KZ personnel and is said to have had personnel exchange with the camps. Most guards were HiWis (Hilfswillige, "those willing to help") from Eastern European countries, but I guess there were some (Waffen-) SS personnel to guard the guards. A typical rank of 2nd Lt would then just be addressed as "Untersturmführer". Most readings suggest that sometimes the name of the person was attached "Untersturmführer Meier", but IIRC (from books) SS was not addressed as "Herr U.", though this might still be the case as an act of politeness. Bingo. Thank you very much Scarhead! [ April 28, 2003, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Walpurgis Night ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSColonel_131st Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 You'd simple say: Untersturmführer (enter name here) (enter text here) For example, "Untersturmführer Meier, melde gehorsamst..." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonfog Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by Walpurgis Night: http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/orwell/149/rankswaffenss.htm Walpurgis Night be aware that the list you linked at contains some spelling errors. The ranks of Major and Lieutenant-Colonel are indicated as Sturmbahnführer/Obersturmbahnführer (which would be something like "assault train leader") instead of Sturmbann- and Obersturmbannführer. Just in case your friend decides to use one of these ranks in his book. Regards Ray 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 The concentration camp system was ran by what was called the SS-Totenkopfverbande. (translated: SS Death's Head Formations) Their motto was "Meine Ehre Heist Freue" (My Honor's name is Loyalty) I would imagine that they would use the same ranking system that the Allgemeine SS would use, though I am not sure about that. Here is a list of some SS which served in Auschwitz and their fates... http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/ss-camp-auschwitz.htm The Allgemeine-SS was the political branch of the SS. They ran the secret police, handled racial matters, etc. The SS-Totenkopfverbande ran the concentration camp system and the Waffen-SS was the armed wing of the SS, this made up the more famous fighting divisions of the German army, such as the Liebstandarte Adolf Hitler, Das Reich, Totenkopf, Wiking, etc... http://www.foothill.net/~yergen/about-ss.html http://www.clam.rutgers.edu/~fmaloney/holoc.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I would also like to confirm what a previous poster stated about the Totenkopfverbande-SS using Hiwi's (usually Ukrainians) to work as guards in the concentration camps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by moonfog: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Walpurgis Night: http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/orwell/149/rankswaffenss.htm Walpurgis Night be aware that the list you linked at contains some spelling errors. The ranks of Major and Lieutenant-Colonel are indicated as Sturmbahnführer/Obersturmbahnführer (which would be something like "assault train leader") instead of Sturmbann- and Obersturmbannführer. Just in case your friend decides to use one of these ranks in his book. Regards Ray </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Also, don't get sucked into the British and American concept that officers are the only ones tasked to important duties. The Germans had a lot fewer officers, and tended to give them the most important tasks. Look at the movie The Great Escape - based on a true story. One of the central German characters was a Hauptfeldwebel - the very specific appointment title of a Company Sergeant Major/Company First Sergeant. (His rank was actually Oberfeldwebel). The SS equivalent of this was Stabscharführer IIRC (I can check at home tonight). Non Commissioned Officers performed a lot of tasks in the German military that would have been performed by officers in the Allied armies. The Hauptfeldwebel/SS equivalent would have done much of the adminstrative stuff in a camp - what duties exactly is this junior officer carrying out? It's quite possible the duties being envisaged for him were actually done by NCOs. Again, some level of context is necessary if you want to be truly accurate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoerner Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by V: The concentration camp system was ran by what was called the SS-Totenkopfverbande. (translated: SS Death's Head Formations) Their motto was "Meine Ehre Heist Freue" (My Honor's name is Loyalty)A small correction: "Meine Ehre heißt Treue." And it was the motto of the whole SS. IMO it's meaning can be better translated with "My Honor means Loyalty". [ April 28, 2003, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Schoerner ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 I've always seen it translated into English as "My Honour is My Loyalty" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoerner Posted April 28, 2003 Share Posted April 28, 2003 Yep, much better: is. That's what it means. But not 'My Loyalty', as a personal definition of free choice, but more of the Loyalty (not only to the Führer). [ April 28, 2003, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Schoerner ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 Wow, so much help . . .it is very much appreciated. Thank you all! Michael, I really don't know any more about the story, so I cannot be more specific. I'm simply (you guys are) doing the preliminary leg-work research. He will, I'm very sure, need to confirm every detail himself, as any fine writer would. This was just to save him those early hours. I will direct him to this thread in case he would like to ask any questions himself. I knew you esoteric grogs were the way to go! Regards, Walpurgis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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