Captured panzerschrecks

[GaMaX]

If we have captured handguns (German PPSh), captured guns, captured tanks, why there are no captured panzerschrecks or panzerfausts? I saw on TV some documentary film where Soviet soldiers are holding something that looks like pzschreck or pzfaust (but it was very blurry). Anyway, it is much easier to learn to operate handheld AT weapon, than enemy tank. And Russians need (desperately) some good infantry AT weapon. By the way, why Soviet infantry squads do not carry RPGs?

[Redwolf]

What you have seen on TV is probably is lent-lease Bazooka.

[Commissar]

The Soviet captured many panzerfausts and panzerschrecks from the Germans and did use them against German armor. They were just as efficient in taking out German armor as they were taking out Soviet armor. As for why this is not represented in CMBB when the Germans get captured PPsHs and T-34, you'll have to ask them. Captured fausts were quite common especially as the Soviets pushed the Germans out of Russia and started pushing towards Germany.

The Soviets did have several thousand lend-lease bazookas and PIATs but they were not popular with Soviet troops and were rare. If I remember correctly, the Soviets were not particularly impressed with their performance and by the time they got them, there was usually plenty of other ways to take out German armor (especially with other Soviet tanks).

RPGs are not really represented in the game most likely because the Soviets did not develop any real hand-held anti-tank rockets until well after the war was over. There was an anti-tank grenade that was thrown by hand, but those were few and far between.

[Ant]

I read recently that the soviets liked to use captured panzerfausts in urban warfare and employed them to take out walls, therefore creating an 'instant door' It was suggested that the Soviets used Panzerfausts in this role more than that of an AT weapon. Don't know for sure how true that is though.

[Munter]

I read i Beevor´s "Berlin 1945" about the same method used by the russian troops, that is making an extra door in urban warfare by using captured Panzerfausts.

In the TV-documentary (BBC?) where they interviewed the author there was also a short clip of a Red Army artillery crew rushing to reload a battery of captured Nebelwerfers.

M

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by Commissar:

RPGs are not really represented in the game most likely because the Soviets did not develop any real hand-held anti-tank rockets until well after the war was over. There was an anti-tank grenade that was thrown by hand, but those were few and far between.

The Soviets call their AT rockets RPG, but that does not mean Rocket Propelled Grenades - why would it? They all speak Russian after all

The translation of the RPG acronym from Russian is something along the lines of Anti-Tank Grenade

The Red Army did field a prodigeous number of thrown AT grenades, called RPG1, IIRC. Late war tank hunter teams are equipped with them. Some German accounts give the impression of very widespread use in infantry squads. Possibly they are not included in Soviet Inf. squads as this would make SMG squads Ultra-Uber-Super-Duper Close-Range Units o'death Vs. infantry and tanks

[Ant]

Possibly they are not included in Soviet Inf. squads as this would make SMG squads Ultra-Uber-Super-Duper Close-Range Units o'death Vs. infantry and tanks

I doubt that they deliberately wouldn't be included in order to 'tone down' the Russian squads. That's a bit like saying they wouldn't include king tigers because they'd be ultra long range weapons of death to any T34s. If Soviet squads were regularly and extensively armed with these weapons IRL then they should have had them in the game. Of course it's too late now but it would be interesting to know why they weren't included.

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by Ant:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Possibly they are not included in Soviet Inf. squads as this would make SMG squads Ultra-Uber-Super-Duper Close-Range Units o'death Vs. infantry and tanks

I doubt that they deliberately wouldn't be included in order to 'tone down' the Russian squads. That's a bit like saying they wouldn't include king tigers because they'd be ultra long range weapons of death to any T34s. If Soviet squads were regularly and extensively armed with these weapons IRL then they should have had them in the game. Of course it's too late now but it would be interesting to know why they weren't included. </font>

[GaMaX]

I think that all of those weapons: panzerschrecks, panzerfausts, PIATs and bazookas should be available to Soviets, but only later in the war and at higher rarity.

[Sergei]

I also hear that in mid-July Russians captured a Finnish toothpick. Less than a year later Germany capitulates. Hmmm...

[ColumbusOHGamer]

Originally posted by Sergei:

I also hear that in mid-July Russians captured a Finnish toothpick. Less than a year later Germany capitulates. Hmmm...

I heard it was secret French cheese...

[flamingknives]

I heard it was secret French cheese...

There's a new one.

"Mein Fuhrer! The Soviet advance means we have our backs against the French cheese! Defeat is now inevitable!

[Commissar]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Commissar:

RPGs are not really represented in the game most likely because the Soviets did not develop any real hand-held anti-tank rockets until well after the war was over. There was an anti-tank grenade that was thrown by hand, but those were few and far between.

The Soviets call their AT rockets RPG, but that does not mean Rocket Propelled Grenades - why would it? They all speak Russian after all

The translation of the RPG acronym from Russian is something along the lines of Anti-Tank Grenade

The Red Army did field a prodigeous number of thrown AT grenades, called RPG1, IIRC. Late war tank hunter teams are equipped with them. Some German accounts give the impression of very widespread use in infantry squads. Possibly they are not included in Soviet Inf. squads as this would make SMG squads Ultra-Uber-Super-Duper Close-Range Units o'death Vs. infantry and tanks </font>

[GaMaX]

Originally posted by Commissar:

I doubt that the lack of RPGs among Soviet troops in CMBB is for play balancing. If play-balance was the real issue, then BTS should have included them since regular German infantry typically have panzerfausts in the game. As is, the Soviet troops don't have as great an ability to take out tanks like their German counterparts do nor should they if this is what is historically accurate (and is as far as I know).

I agree that soviet infantry squads should not have AT weapons if that is how it was. But what about tank hunter teams? Tank hunters in CMBB carry Molotov cocktails and, later, sometimes they carry RPGs. But they could also occasionally carry lent-lease Bazookas or captured Panzerfausts.

[M1A1TC]

Actually RPG is- "Raketnaya Protivo-tankovaya Granata" translation: Rocket-propelled anti-tank grenade.

[Bastables]

Cut and paste of an old ans by me because no one seems to want to use the search engine.

Reaktivniy Protivotankovyi Granatomet.

It means the same thing to day

In English Anti tank grenade.

RPG as rocket-propelled grenade makes no sense to the Russian speaker. I know those crazy Russians, why don?t they just use English acronyms like everyone else.

Nope I'm wrong misread the Russian Alphabet.

[ September 30, 2003, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: Bastables ]