GaMaX

Wicky, surely you have larger picture of the masterpiece.

Or one airplane.

And, Michael, please note that currently units are instantly unloaded from transports. They just suddenly appear unloaded.

Actually, pause would depend on transport class of unloading units.

I said "no long delays", not "no delays". Of course that truck (or halftrack, tank, etc) unloading units would wait certain amount of time depending of type of the units. And it would be very realistic. [ October 05, 2003, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: GaMaX ]

And how about "unload passengers" order? Could be very useful for trucks. Then you could move along a road, leave passengers where you want them, and speed off to some cover. No long delays. In combination with "follow road" it would make life a lot easier.

There will not be many roads in CMAK.

Hm, I wonder how would people react if I repost this joke, but replace "Italians" with "French" and "CMAK" with "CM The Blitzkrieg Years".

No, it shows how lazy reader you are. Read the entire thread one more time. Did I ever question that? You got it all wrong.

Do you think that Italian soldiers didn't die in WW2? Around 350.000 IIRC died during the war. Did you mind thinking that I could be offended by your "surrender" jokes, just because I could have had some relative who died in that war? </font>

Fine, excellent, I agree. Obviously lowered moral depends of region and date. In CMBB we have South, Central, North and Finland. In CMAK could be something like that. And option to lower moral for any nationality in some specific battle is also good idea. But lowered moral don’t have to be solution to problems Italian army had. That was my idea, my proposal. If somebody has different idea, please say it. Anyway, I’m not making the game, so all this is a little bit pointless.

"Throwing up" was a joke and got it. I even laughed. But than came another "joke", which clearly wasn't one. Both were "jokes" without " ". I will always put " " or " " next to my joke to make sure that people understand that it is only a joke. I don't understand why all Italians are offended with my idea of lowering moral of Italian army. That is a historical fact. Italian army never won a major battle in WWII. I'm sure that they had some heroes and bright moments, but as a whole, Italian army had some serious problems. I just wanted to represent that somehow in CMAK. Please don't blame me for that. Of course, this is a joke. But, it's very dark humour, because that order is not necessary, Cetniks and Ustashas never took prisoners. WWII was VERY bloody in Yugoslavia, over one million Serbs died, most of them in Ustasha's death camps (as Jasenovac) and pits (all around Dalmatia). But you can't lower command delay of Russians. And that is fine, because Russian army of that time had its problems. I don't know if this offends Russian players. Italian moral penalty would be just that. Italian soldiers suffered of poor leadership, poor equipment, poor food, lack of enthusiasm to fight, etc. They're not COWARDS. At least we agree of something. And I'll repeat: I don't have anything against Italians. If I offended anybody with my joke, I'm sorry. I just hope I didn't offend anybody with my serious proposal, because it still stands.

Ha! Really?

That was cheating. I said guess! One insult after another. Way to go Romulus. I never intended to insult anyone, but if I did, I’m really sorry. If you allude to NATO bombing when you say mass-surrendering in my country, I’ll remind you that we were bombed because we didn’t surrender, not vise versa. And, of course, because we had crappy politicians running the country... But Serbs almost always have crappy politicians.

Hey, was that an insult? But, you know what? I really am for one of those countries that never surrendered!!! :eek: But we are really not "uber-mensch". Guess which country is that.

No, you are not right. And, please, don’t be stubborn. You say that that command delays are based "on equipment, doctrine, etc". That could be true for artillery delays, but it's certainly not true for command delay of a single squad. Why should soldiers in Soviet squads need more time to react than German soldiers. Are they morons. Certainly not! The truth is that BFC tried to SIMULATE command structure of Soviet army in that time. That's why all Soviet units have increased delays, although that's not really fair, as I said before. Someone not familiar with CM could interpret that as insulting to Soviet soldiers who fought bravely to save their country. The same way you are misinterpreting my idea about lowered moral of Italians. There is simply nothing insulting about in my idea. If someone gave me a rifle and told me to fight for Nazis my moral wouldn't be high either. Now, with my idea to reduce global moral of Italians I tried to SIMULATE problems in their army: poor leadership, lack of motivation to fight, poor equipment, etc. And yes, these problems are only Italian problems. Other armies had different problems. But here we are talking about Italians. My solution might not be the best solution, but that's what this thread is for. Making them "weakened or exhausted conscripts and start them out panicked" is not what I am looking for, because you can do that with any army, and I want something that will distinguish them (just as with Soviets). And for the last time: "Surrender" order was only a joke (that only one person in this thread understood, as it seems). My idea was to do something about mass surrendering of Italians in WWII.

No, you are missing the point. In CM you are playing relatively even battles. In history, the Italians fought well in relatively even battles. So, there is NO justification for a surrender command. None, Nadda, Get it? </font>

Well, in '41 KV heavy tanks were also indestructible, but Germans reached Moscow.

Oh, finally. Somebody with the sense of humour.

No, Berlichtingen, you are missing the point. It doesn’t matter WHY Italians surrendered. They did surrender, and that’s what matters. Of course it has nothing to with the fact that they were Italians. It’s just as with Soviet longer command delays, nobody is saying that Russian soldiers are less intelligent.

The US Army practiced "Marching Fire" (Patton even recommends it in his memoirs), which was the formation of a skirmish line and an upright advance towards the enemy. The use of semi-auto weapons made this more plausible than the use of bolt action weapons; but a Soviet wave armed with SMGs in close-in terrain would have been something rightly to be feared.</font>

That was my point. I just said it in a strange and interesting way. But, if somebody thinks that my idea of Italian "surrender" order is an insult or degradation of Italian soldiers, than please tell me what you think of "Human Wave"? Trying to scare off enemy by yelling!!! Isn't that humiliating for a soldier. Fighting by yelling?! With "Surrender" soldiers at least stay alive, but with "Human wave"...

That's the second dumbest thing you've posted in this thread! </font>

It’s just as with Russians in June / July ’41 in CMBB. They have increased command delays, longer artillery delays, they have only conscripts, greens and regulars, while Germans have regulars, veterans and crack troops. Simply, Russians are inferior to Germans in every way. The only things that saves them are T-34, KV-1 and KV-2 tanks. Without these tanks it would be impossible to play and win a battle with Soviets in CMBB in those early months. That is my experience. It is clear that Italians must be somehow weakened in CMAK, as they had similar problems in Africa as Soviets did in ’41. And I meant this "Surrender" order as a joke, not a serious thing.

How many soldiers Italians had in Africa? How many soldiers (for example) British had in Africa? How many battles Italians won? How many battles British won? And finally, prisoners: How many of those soldiers ended in prisoner camps? And what about Sicily? Who fought allied troops attacking Sicily? Germans or Italians? If I'm not mistaking, Italy changed sides after defeat at Sicily. [ September 30, 2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Gamax ]