tank battle practice..what would you suggest?

[ckct]

I have been practicing my tank battles against the computer.

The time is August 1943. The map is village or rural, medium-sized, modest hill and modest tree coverage.

Each side is given 1000 pts.

Scenario is 20 turn plus, meeting engagement (Doesn't really matter, I focus on tanks).

Being on the axis side, i pick a platoon of IIIL (vet) and two Stum IIIGs (Crack).

For the allies, i pick a mix of tanks. Always mixing a platoon of T-34s with a few heavy tanks (KV-1s or SU-122s).

The first time I played it, I got slaughter. After playing 3-4 times, I can take out the computer with only losing one IIIL. The style i play is very defensively as there is no way for me to tell the tank to reverse the instant they see another tank. I tried shoot n scoot but often it comes down to waiting for the comp to make the first move.

Would you guys give a suggestion on how to create a setup such that it is fair and challenging. I think I should set as axis attack so I will be force to fight on the offense.

It is very terrifying to see shells bouncing off a KV-1 when you are only 50 m and under. This is not even a frontal shot but a side shot.

[Lucho]

You know what a "Bauernopfer" is? Especially german tank doctrine was agressive ("Ausnutzen!") and like Soviets they sometimes don´t bother losses.

To the CM engine: The AI normally concentrates its troops (also tanks) in one ( or two) points.

It would be a good idea to identify them with light, fast tanks (or PSW´s) and then to outflank the concentrations by using the terrain ( speed is essential). Enemy stragglers should be destroyed immediatly if encountered. Especially useful against tanks with slow turret speed is the two pronged attack with delays:

Get in view of enemy tanks with one group from one side, retreat or get in cover, then attack the group from another angle ( it can even be only a marginal agnle for the opposing forces).

[Joachim]

Teh IIIL need side shots. Show StuGs at range, flank with a pair of IIILs on each side.

I doubt German tanks would attack a significant amount of KVs frontally. The trick is to be the operational attacker but to defend tactically: Grab some terrain essential for the enemy and force him to abandon his position.

OTOH this could happen in a counterattack after soviets seized terrain important for German defense.

A nice example is "Action at Manuchskaya", but you have combined arms forces (the German inf is used for recce, and to clear the woods, Arty kills Soviet ATGs, the tanks do the real killing).

Though "Ausnutzen" is a valid idea, I doubt it demands to use a bad situation. It makes sense in immediately pressing home any advantage, but PzIII vs KV is not an advantage. Much the same like T34/76 vs Tigers.... look at this debate to find alid tactics for CM.

My setup:

Large map with long LOS yet covered lines of communications (distance=cover). If you are the attacker: Probe for weak spots, grab a weakly defended flag and then defend it vs the AI counterattack. You'll need some combined arms to do this. Pure Armor won't do, Armor on both sides will do (which is exactly as the scen mentioned above...).

Gruß

Joachim

[Jack Carr]

I do this often. I usually set up a QB both sides armor only. I select a veteran or better German big cat, Tiger or Panther. 1000-1250 points with Allies getting +10 to +25%. I set Allied experience levels to regular or better. Axis defends against Allied attack. Usually late 44.

With my points I purchase one tank, just one. They usually end up with mostly T-34/85's with a smattering of IS-2's and SU-76's. They have between 12-15 vehicles to my one Tiger or Panther.

I'm not sure what this teaches you but its very hard to survive this QB and its awfully fun to play. Their 85mm or better guns can very easily take your ubercat out if you play foolishly. One thing I feel it does is force you to bide your time and use the terrain wisely.

Sometimes I'll use a Jagdpanther as well although because of the ammo loadout on the Jagdpanther, it generally runs out of AP before it can finish them all off. That's if it's lucky enough to get to that point.

Try to make the map large or bigger. This way there is always the possibility for the AI to sneak a tank off to your side and take you out where your armor is weakest.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Jack Carr:

With my points I purchase one tank, just one

The perfect tactic for learning micromanagement and an interesting short game.

Not a perfect setting to learn offensive tactics or coordination.

But coordination usually depends on micromanagement of each and every tank.

Gruß

Joachim

[Jack Carr]

Originally posted by Joachim:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jack Carr:

With my points I purchase one tank, just one

The perfect tactic for learning micromanagement and an interesting short game.

Not a perfect setting to learn offensive tactics or coordination.

But coordination usually depends on micromanagement of each and every tank.

Gruß

Joachim </font>

[Redwolf]

I think the optimal training would be fore you to have a platoon of 4 tanks (ignore default platoon size) and have the AI roaming around with a company of 12 or 14 in fairly complex terrain.

Then try to get local number superiority. Keep hidden until you know where you pop up several of your tanks will shoot at one of their, or that you will have a different advantage. Repeat until you run out of tanks, then repeat scenario.

You will need some additional units to get observation while your tanks are hidden. Scout vehicle don't really work, do some normal infantry should do. A mortar spotter for smoke will add learning experience, too.

[George MC]

I've just posted a scenario at the Scenario Depot - titled TBP No1 attack against PAK - its not an armour Vs armour action, but it does allow you to practice fire and movemnt principles with your armour (its Germans attacking a Soviet PAK front).

[Alkiviadis]

Try "Ambush T34" at The Scenario depot.

Small...unique victory conditions.

based on an historic incident Summer of '42.

A Red Army Tank Raid aganst a German Kampgruppe...very tense, good training for both sides.

Get it at: http://ns9.super-hosts.com/~dragonlair.net/combatmission/

[Abteilung]

I tend to purchase a platoon of recce vehicles and spread them across a wide front. They are used only to identify where the enemy is, never engaging them outright. Sound contacts are enough to get a decent idea of where he is and where he intends to go.

The next step is to choose a number of approaches to the enemy's flank, depending upon where my main body of armor resides.

From there I usually break off a small number of tanks to send along an alternate route to draw the enemy's movements towards them (fast move works great for drawing attention). Trying to hide the numbers sometimes works when I have a tank go back and forth in order to make himself look like several sound contacts moving into position (in defilade) and then staying put.

Next I quietely maneuver the remainder into position on the flanks of the enemy armored force who is usually preoccupied with the feint. It's usually a turkey shoot at that point.

Basically, it's fire and maneuver, only with tank platoons (companies) insteads of infantry.