Best use of walls?

[Spacewrangler]

I was wondering, what is the best way to use a wall for cover in CM? I've noticed that you can place a unit "in" a wall, so to speak. When you click on that unit's status, it shows that they are in a "wall" (as opposed to scattered trees or open ground, or whatever).

So, if I want my boys to advance to a wall and shoot from behind it, do I actually need to place them on the wall for them to use it as cover, or do I simply place their waypoint just behind the wall?

I've always just placed the waypoint just behind the wall, and that seems to do ok, I just wanted to make sure.

[junk2drive]

i think you are correct. watch your routed troops get slaughtered as they try to run away, then get trapped in a wall or hedge.

as i understand it, wall offers cover, but not enough protection. that is why paniced troops sneak away from the wall across open ground to get to brush.

[Slappy]

1. You want to be behind the wall. In the wall terrain represents crossing the wall and will rapidly lead to being mown down. Behind gives cover from the wall.

2. Here's the rub with that. The TacAI doesn't consider intervening terrain in its calculations of safety, only the terrain the unit is in. Under fire, a unit behind a will will take little damage, but will panic as if in open ground. Best use of walls is in a foxhole behind them. If that is unavailable, behind a wall in the open is far better than on the wall.

[Paddington]

yep, never move units on the wall. They will get killed...

[Redwolf]

Walls have 0% exposure if you hide behind them and some pretty good exposure behind it if you don't hide.

However, the whole experience is ruined by the TacAI running out of terrain behind walls (read Slappy's paragraph 2). Once you are a few meters away from the wall the cover doesn't apply anymore and you get slaughtered.

A trench behind the wall solves the problem but is not much better than just a trench.

[Bonxa]

I would think that a trench behind a wall on a small reverse slope is the best possible position you could have, no? You rarely get that lucky though.

Exposusre ratings might be better in woods and the like but they are susceptible to treebursts which is very bad.

What I haven't checked though is the effectiveness of fences and hedges. Are they anywhere near the walls?

[Spacewrangler]

From my experience, hedges are quite a bit less effective than walls, if any unit takes a substantial amount of fire behind a hedge, they begin to crawl away.

I would use them only to protect an advance that is receive fire from at least 350 meters away.

[Slappy]

Hedges and fences offer no cover. They also offer all the exposure of trying to cross walls when on top of them. They are generally pretty useless except at extreme range as Spacewrangler mentions. At that range, they still won't stop fire, but hedges will offer decent concealment. Units that go to ground behind the hedge will become unspotted quickly at that range (in BB and AK at least) allowing them time to regroup. Of course, once they regroup, they still have to cross the hedge in clear LOS. Fences are pretty useless all around. Consider them free barbed wire.

[Sanok]

I think walls and cemetaries are under-modeled. Being behind a stone wall or a tombstone would offer very good cover and concealment from small arms fire. However, a cemetary is 50% exposure for infantry. If I remember the figure from my recent test, just behind a wall is 22% exposure. You get about that in scattered trees. Also, being directly on/in a wall is 95% exposure!

[Falcon988]

50% in a cemetary seems about right. Tombstone's aren't -that- big and will at best only fully protect you from troops to your 12:00. You're better off saying "bugger this" and ducking behind a stone wall.

[Joachim]

If your unlucky tombstones are just wooden crosses or lie flat in the earth. Not really much cover.2nd KarlXII that a trench behind a wall and crest is the best cover. Exposure is like a normal trench but lots of DF HE don't come close enough to the trench to hurt the troops.

It also offers the possibility of disengaging the enemy rather quickly. Once you hide, the enemy can't target you and a covered arc will pretty much ensure you don't unhide.

Works as trench behind crest (better protection vs DF HE) or trench behind wall (better exposure and hiding), too. But the combo seems best. It allows more slack when placing the unit.

In a position like that you don't need keyholing for your ATGs. At long ranges where mortars are inaccurate your opponent needs arty to dislocate you.

Gruß

Joachim

[xerxes]

Trench behind wall in reverse slope with 20m LOS to the crest.

Ouch.

[Beta1]

I had a 75mm PAK in a trench a couple of meters behind a stone wall near the top of a hill (the trench was just behind the crest but the gun had LOS over the top of the wall was on the top)

And on a random map, never seen such a great site. The gun killed its first target and survived about 10 turns of return fire form several tanks. My opponent must have been area targeting as he was still firing at the guns position but the rounds all either whized over the crest or impacted into the wall area. It certainly tied up the advanc for a good few minutes, and thats more than I was hoping for!