nevermind Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 This is probably going to be a dumb question,but while thumbing thru the manual(during a moment of boredum),i came to the terrain section and the entry about Steppe.It says "....It consists of waist-high grass which provides excellent concealment for hiding infantry...." I did not know this! My question is,since veteran squads can sneak undetected through summer wheatfields,can vet and higher squads,or lower experience squads boosted with HQ stealth bonus to the level of vet,sneak undetected through Steppe? Thanks! I did a quick search and found nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermind Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 -------------BUMP--------------- :mad: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theike Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 im guessing thats because the density of a man plant wheat field provides better cover then the scattered high and low grasses, and no grasses at points (i guess) of the steppe. [ July 07, 2003, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: theike ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 We need somebody to do some testing Sorry , not me ; i am at work ( reading the forums LOL ) Monty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfatwosix Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 I just spent 2 years working around the Kazakh steppes in the Caspian area.... a pygmee would have a hard time finding concealment in that... for me, it consists of ankle-high vegetation, no trees at all (sometimes driving for 6 hours from one town to the next) ... then again, the Germans never came that far.... maybe the Kazak steppe is diferent from the Russian and Ukrainian one... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 You can see the effect of steppe grass in the game demo. You need to get pretty close to those dug-in AT guns before you can spot them. I don't know about the official % of concealment, I recall an old thread had a list of the various terrains and the percentage of concealment for each. I recall how much concealment cemetaries gave and city streets but I can't recall the number for steppe. As for veteran commander with with stealth bonus aiding in troops sneaking through steppe, I don't know why it wouldn't work - to a point. I certainly wouldn't put concealment in steppe grass on par with concealment in woods! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by Alfatwosix: ...maybe the Kazak steppe is diferent from the Russian and Ukrainian one... Very likely, I should think. Sounds like where you were was semi-desert, yes? Ukraine grew most of the USSR's grain, so it must have been somewhat moist. Maybe that would also support lusher native vegetation as well. But I'm only guessing. Do we have an expert in the house? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogdan Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by Alfatwosix: it consists of ankle-high vegetation, no trees at all (sometimes driving for 6 hours from one town to the next) ... then again, the Germans never came that far.... maybe the Kazak steppe is diferent from the Russian and Ukrainian one... Here my result of "steppe" with Google : Ukrainian steppe -------------------- Kazakh steppe ----------------- ...you said... "cover" ? Best regards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by nevermind: This is probably going to be a dumb question,but while thumbing thru the manual(during a moment of boredum),i came to the terrain section and the entry about Steppe.It says "....It consists of waist-high grass which provides excellent concealment for hiding infantry...." I did not know this! It is not a dumb question. The manual is very misleading in this regard. Steppe will conceal nothing that is moving and in enemy LOS, save a sneaking sharpshooter that is really far away. [ July 07, 2003, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Walpurgis Night ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 As for veteran commander with with stealth bonus aiding in troops sneaking through steppe, I don't know why it wouldn't work - to a point. I guess the difference is between concealing something stationary vs being able to conceal something in movement. Understandably a wheatfield would be dense enough to hide the moving vets whereas a steppe (in the right season I presume) would be sufficient to hide something in a prepared defensive position, but not enough to hide the moving soldiers. Does that sound convincing? Or is it more like big steaming piles of defecation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 I have set up infantry in the open steppe a couple of times (because of a complete and total lack of any cover, try Biltong's campaign...) and it seems they're safe as long as they don't move (no sneaking either). Woe betide them if they get spotted though. The tiniest amount of fire will send them into 'aimless irretrievable squirm' mode until death ensues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by Walpurgis Night: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nevermind: This is probably going to be a dumb question,but while thumbing thru the manual(during a moment of boredum),i came to the terrain section and the entry about Steppe.It says "....It consists of waist-high grass which provides excellent concealment for hiding infantry...." I did not know this! It is not a dumb question. The manual is very misleading in this regard. Steppe will conceal nothing that is moving and in enemy LOS, save a sneaking sharpshooter that is really far away. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermind Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by Sgt_Kelly: I have set up infantry in the open steppe a couple of times (because of a complete and total lack of any cover, try Biltong's campaign...) and it seems they're safe as long as they don't move (no sneaking either). Woe betide them if they get spotted though. The tiniest amount of fire will send them into 'aimless irretrievable squirm' mode until death ensues. So what about short advances that dont take the entire turn,and at the end you add a hide command?So say advance 20m and hide,then maybe leave them hiden for the next turn while another squad or platoon advances.Will the previously advancing squad still be visible(in EFOW)or will it do that magical disappear thing?I know they may receive more fire,and may panic or start sneaking,but if the defender has other moving targets to fire at,it just might work. This could change my entire approach to advancing across Steppe.Did anyone else know this,or did we all over-look this? Sorry for not doing tests myself,i seem to be inept at the editor,and if im gonna spend time in CM,its playing time baby! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfatwosix Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Good search Bogdan Saves me from posting my ugly face on the forum in front of some petroleum pump to make my point 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogdan Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by Alfatwosix: Good search Bogdan Saves me from posting my ugly face on the forum in front of some petroleum pump to make my point LOL You're welcome I would agree with Sgt Kelly about concealment in steppe terrain for immobile units. As long as they don't move, soldiers are still hidden in their starting positions. Here too, I didn't test anything Maybe someone could create a test scenario ? Also, is there no concealment when units don't have foxholes or trenches at the beginning of the battle ? Are soldiers hidden even if they are gently waiting for orders, without any concealment ? Or steppe terrain provides automatically a good cover ? :confused: In that situation, the player could consider steppe terrain like tree terrain ! I mean, I usually set my infantry in wood, tree or forrest (I don't talk about buildings) at the beginning of a scenario. Then, is steppe providing the same concealment "value" ? The only difference would be : steppe terrain is good for cover only for immobile units which stay hidden since turn #1... Is there any "concealment" values / statistics from BFC for the different terrain tiles ? We could the compare... All the best. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 BTW, returning to the Hide command... On my set up turn, I generally place my units with a hide command if there is any chance of an enemy LOS to them, regardless of what kind of terrain they are in. I can't see any point in possibly giving anything away to the enemy and having him shoot at them or call down artillery on them. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRUMLIN Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Except for those games where you know the enemy has a bunch of arty (I'm thinking campaigns here) and you knowingly exposed some poor partisans on turn one so the enemy thinks its your main force and dumps barrages on them.... is that gamey? Grum 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfatwosix Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 That's called diversion tactics in my dictionary, not gamey 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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