Problem with "Ants and Elephants" --> Attacking

[dickesKind]

Hello everyone!

I am new to this forum, and pretty new with CMBB

I have some problems with "Ants and Elephants" (is this the name in english version of the game?, but you can take this for every scenario in which I have to attack . Every time I play it from the russian side I have horrible infantry casualties, or at least a lot of squads are broken or in panic. Those hMG 34s really hit me hard every time I try to advance with my infantry from the forrest. I have problems spotting the hMGs. I only have sound contact, i order my grenade launchers to "area fire" fire these positions, but the enemy is still firing.

What could it be that I am doing wrong?

How would you introduce your attack?

How do you spot enemy positions? (Those binocular guys spot nothing for me )

I could do all the job only with my tanks, but thats not the sense at least of this scenario, i think

Thank you very much for your help and your tips.

Oh...i DID use the board search

Greetings...

[Inola]

There is one good solution- play more and read forum. After half year of trainings you will be good. Play with people, but first time you can play vs AI.

[Cuirassier]

Do you mean the scenario "Pop Guns and Elephants." That is the only scenario close to the title you gave on my CD.

Also, I suggest searching posts in the Tips and Tricks forum by JasonC. He gives good tactical advice that should improve your game.

[Mike Summers]

You can find all of JasonC's scenarios here: http://snipurl.com/17cbu

Search the forums for his well-written walkthroughs of each scenarios.

[Corvidae]

dickesKind,

The "binocular guys" are artilery spotters, they are not recon troops.

They only spot the spotting round for the artilery battery they represent. They do not spot actual enemy troops.

Use them to direct general bombardment onto suspected enemy positions.

I dont think you have any grenade launchers.

[Cuirassier]

dickesKind,

What you probably should do is just make a small quickbattle with the quickbattle option in the missions menu. Make it the smallest size,(i think 300pts) and pick a variety of forces. Then you can just play around with them and see how everything works.

I suggest you stay away from scenarios until you know how all the game's units function.

[GreenAsJade]

But meanwhile, you need to advance a recon unit (small unit of troops) first, ahead of your main force, which will persuade the MG to fire. It is no use area firing on sound contacts: their location is too uncertain. Make sure you have enough eyes looking at the defensive position while the recon unit(s) press forwards. You will eventually spot the MG and can supress it with mortar fire.

JasonC has an article specifically about advancing troops under MG fire, which you will have to do if your whole force is too far away to spot the MG properly.

GaJ

[dickesKind]

Hello!

Thank you all for your answers!

The scenario i meant is the first in list of the original scenarios.

With "binocular guys" i didnt meant those artillery spotters, but all officers with binoculars in their inventory.

I played the first ten of JasonC's scenarios. But it didnt really help me in the mentioned scenario. As soon as I want to advance with my infantry they get heavy fire from the village. And firing with my grenade launchers at the "sound contact" sign doesnt make fire to stop

So what can I do? How do I spot the enemy without loosing half of my men by beeing shot? Tanks seem to be not so good in spotting, even if they are not buttoned. I thought that I provocate some fire with 1 or two units and the others will find out the positions where the fire comes from (with binoculars ). But it doesnt work.

Short form: How to spot the enemy without beeing shot?

Thanks for your answers

[GreenAsJade]

You are too far away to spot them.

You need to read JasonC's article on 'advancing under fire".

You won't loose half your men from being shot at at that range.

A summary of JC's article is "advance men in a 'taking turns' way, so that each squad gets a chance to recover while the next is advancing a little way". Start the first squad at the beginning of the turn, the next say 20s later, the next 20s after that, etc and make sure they don't get ordered to go too far in one burst.

GaJ

(And I did already mention that area fire at sound contacts will not work).

[Corvidae]

Ah, my mistake dickesKind,

All squads have (or should have) binoculars.

Select a squad, hit the [enter] button, A window should appear with detailed info on that squad.

Provokating fire is recon by death, It doesnt work very well. You are just too far away to get more than a sound contact, and sound contacts are very unreliable. You need to get close without getting spotted.

I'm gonna check the mission, So I'll know more about it.

Cuirassier has the right idea, try small QBs first.

I'll post again later

[Corvidae]

dickesKind,

You have 2 full battalions of ski troops with tank support.

You have a lot of 50mm mortars.

You have a lot of maxim HMGs.

You also have 2 82mm mortar spotters representing a lot of off map firepower.

You dont have to see the enemy at this point, you just have to overwhelm him with HE.

[tankibanki]

Another idea: call in smoke, then advance quickly using the speed advantage of the skis. Once your skitroops take fire they drop their skis and have nearly no chance to cross the open ground. This one is really tricky if you don't want to use the tanks.

[Cuirassier]

I'll check out the scenario and give my $0.02 as well.

[Joachim]

A scen by Berli. Date is March 3rd '42, 30 turns. Only have a localized version, too

Gruß

Joachim

[Cuirassier]

Ok. As Corvidae said, you have 2 battalions of ski troops. This means you have lots and lots of infantry. Its also a good mix: each battalion has 4 companies-3 rifle/smg mix and 1 heavy weapons. You also get a platoon of engineers for each battalion, who can clear mines or demo charge buildings.

Also, you get 2 platoons of T-34's and 1 platoon of KV-1's (these have tons of HE)

Given your forces, you have a couple options. Since you have lots of infantry and overwatch, you can lead with infantry. Make sure you give them covered arcs and give them staggered move to contact orders. The snow is deep, so you don't want them ditching their skis. The 82mm can be used for smoke, perhaps to smoke just half of the defenders board. But don't smoke the whole thing, because you won't be able to keep it up, and it will mess up your overwatch los.

Since los spans the whole map, you probably won't get much advantage from doing a wing attack. A broad advance of infantry, in waves, making for the craters in the center, with tanks, mortars and HMG's overwatching might be the best bet. Use smoke to screen some defenders.

Your KV's should shell the buildings on the left of the map from the get go, as thats an obvious location for HMG's, snipers and maybe an FO. So make sure you drop those buildings even if you don't know if someone is inside, because someone probably is. Where the rest of the defenders will be is less obvious, though it is likely they will be strung out ahead and parallel to the road, as to protect the flags. Before you can fire at them though, you will have to find their foxholes, or trenches, with infantry.

It would also be a good idea to have engineers following the point platoons, to clear mines that may cross the route of your advance.

Also, if an HMG sound contact is really slowing you down and messing up men, don't be afraid to send a couple of T-34's near to find it and silence it. You may lose one or two tanks to an AT gun, but simply take it out in reply with your mortars.

And know your combined arms principals: HMG's cover open ground, preventing repositionings and easy rally by already suppressed troops. Mortars (the onboard 50mm's) fire at spotted AT guns in pairs. Armor drops buildings, kills HMG's, and knocks out troops in trenches and foxholes. Infantry holds their fire until 200m. Shooting beyond that with rifleman is a waste of ammo. SMG squads should shoot only as far as 75m.

And as other people have said, look at JasonC's 'advancing in the open' thread, because the absence of cover in this map means you will have to use these principals. Mainly though, just don't bunch up: so put your men in waves, don't cram them all on line.

You may also consider conducting an attack lead by armor, if you don't want to do the slower infantry advance.

I hope this gives you some ideas and help.

[JasonC]

Cuirassier has basically the right idea. Drop all the houses with HE from the tanks. That should take less than five minutes (small houses one tank, one minute. Big tall ones, two tanks one minute). Advance single platoons of ordinary rifles one at a time, to draw enemy fire without exposing the main body.

Advance one tank at a time - I actually prefer using the KVs for it, as thicker - to spotting range of the firing MGs. As they won't be in the no-longer standing houses, you can find the range easily - they will be in the woods strips. At 150-175m you will get full IDs on anyone firing.

Tank alone does not work, the enemy just stays quiet. Infantry alone does not work, the MGs will break them before they get to full ID range. So threaten with small bits of infantry while a tank spots.

When you get IDs, hit each with a tank and 2 50mm mortars. Once they have worked him over for a minute, turn off the tank HE and put an MMG on them to prevent rally. The 50mms can fire if he is still heads up, and skip a turn if he is already cowering.

Keep the rifle infantry dribbling out into the open in small waves, drawing fire or getting closer or both. They fire back with their rifles at IDed targets, everyone at the same guy until he runs. SMGs still back, bulk of the infantry still back in the trees.

If guns hit your tanks, hit them back with 2 tanks and 3 mortars and 2 MMGs each, and they won't last long. If they KOed one, send another forward - never risk more than one at a time at the closer ranges.

Start at one end or the other. I like starting at the building heavy left side, because the rubble there will be poorly defended and gives better capacity cover for your own large force.

Once you have men across in cover, they go stationary until they rally and rest, firing back. Then move a few out, cover to cover hops, to expand the hold and make room for more. Cross SMGs once this has been achieved, and let them lead the way from that point on. They should have short, 80m covered arcs incidentally, to conserve ammo. The rifles can fire at will.

The Germans do not have enough to stop a gradual attack. Their longest suit is their HMGs, which are strong enough to stop any massed rush while all still alive and functioning. And to stop small infantry-only forces trying to get close enough to ID them.

But they can't afford to lose half of the MGs and see their infantry run low on ammo, with many firing at each wave for the whole first half of the game. They will get progressively weaker as shooter after shooter runs low on ammo or morale or both.

Cross most of the infantry in the second half of the game. You can use the 82mm for smoke at the times you do so, en masse. But there is no point in rushing areas still held by live defenders. Wait, get a foothold first. Then smoke the rest and fast-ski full platoons into the cover already reached by the leading waves.

Once you have infantry equal to the defender's original numbers across the field, on top of the firepower of the tanks, the Germans do not have a prayer.

Everyone will be close enough by then, that any shoot will be IDed fully. And the ground is so open, LOS so good, every weapon you have will bear. And the defenders will be annihilated by all that fire.

The key trick is not to rush, to let a tank get the first IDs, and to force the defenders to fire so the tanks can see something, using a small amount of your infantry.