Ezrider Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Ello all,Great game.Not enough hours in the day(cheers god.Anyway 2 the point wat r canister shells & wat do they do? Also wats the best allied tank in 1942? Happy gaming,cheers in advance for any help 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Cannister is a bunch of small bullets contained in, well, a cannister - it is fired from a gun and becomes a great swathe of pellets that is rather dangerous - like a big shotgun shell. 1942? KV-1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Canister is the same round by the same name used since the 18th century or earlier. It consists of a variety of small objects packed into a canister designed to spread out upon firing and cause massive damage to soft (i.e. human) targets at relatively short range. It is similar to what would be called grapeshot in the british navy (iron balls the size of grapes packed into the shell), and is the tank equivalent of a shotgun shell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruceov Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 The best allied tank in 42 is the Sherman beyond a doubt The one with 89mm turrent armor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Originally posted by Slappy: It is similar to what would be called grapeshot in the british navy (iron balls the size of grapes packed into the shell)...My knowledge of the subject is less than comprehensive, but I believe grapeshot fell somewhere between a ping-pong ball and a tennis ball in size. They did in fact also have a cannister round which consisted of musket balls. Grapeshot, in addition to being a potent anti-personnel weapon at close range, were also useful for attacking the rigging of opposing ships in the age of sail. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exSpecForSgt Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: My knowledge of the subject is less than comprehensive, but I believe grapeshot fell somewhere between a ping-pong ball and a tennis ball in size. They did in fact also have a cannister round which consisted of musket balls.Sorry, but "grapeshot" and "cannister" was essentially the same thing: a canvas (usually) 'bag' with =lots= of musket balls. It was =extremely= effective against infantry at (relatively) close ranges. Now, there -was- a composite 'round' that consisted of either 9 or 12 "meatballs" {my term for them, since they were about the size of my G'mother's Sunday afternoon meatballs} and enough musket balls to 'round out' the package. They were used at sea when you got reasonably close to your target to sweep the decks. The 'meatballs' were large enough to tear through most things found on decks - small boats, barrels, cabin walls, etc - as well as the planking on the top part of the sides (the gunnels?? - sorry, I'm not a 'squid'). The musket balls were merely 'packing' .. but if they took out someone along the way, great! This round was not used ashore because it was a waste of time and storage space [for artillery requirements on land]. On land, you either used a largish round to beat the hell out of whatever it was you were firing at, or you used 'grape' when the enemy started getting too close for comfort. Grapeshot, in addition to being a potent anti-personnel weapon at close range, were also useful for attacking the rigging of opposing ships in the age of sail.In a word - NUTS! It was lousy for use against rigging! They used "chain-shot" for that. "Chain-shot" is attaching a length of chain to either two balls (not used very often - too wasteful of resources) or to the flat sides of =a= ball cut in half. Essentially, you'd cut a ball in half, attached the chain to the flat side, curl the chain round 'n round 'n round, attach it to the other side, then put it all in a cloth bag to keep it nice and tidy. When fired, the bag would shred, the chain would extend, and .. Bob's your uncle! 'Chain' was =great= against rigging, but lousy against the sides. - = - = - = - "Cannister" in Viet Nam was called a "beehive round". It was =only= used when the battery position was being directly attacked and there were '***s in the wire'. When firing it, a few things of note happened: 1) The tube was essentially flat, pointed directly where you wanted the 'bees' to go. 2) You screamed "BEEHIVE!" at the top of your voice =just= before pulling the lanyard. 3) Upon hearing "beehive", everyone within hearing got as flat in whatever hole in the ground as they could find (and usually prayed!) because the 'bees' didn't care who you were... 4) Everything and everyone within a cone from the gun was shredded and/or killed. The 'cone' was usually only about a couple hundred feet deep, and, yes, that =IS= entirely too damn close to be playing those sorts of games with an infantry assault!! "Beehive" was first used in late-'66. Once the NVA figured out what it was, they (more or less) quit trying to assault artillery positions. Each shot could easily cost them 30-40-50+ troops with virtually =no= chance of accomplishing anything. After an assault attempt, it would be common to find scores of bodies and equipment left where they fell because there were literally too many of them to be carried away by what few survivors were left. One of the mailmen on campus was a 'gun-bunny'. We got "a few" under our belts one evening and began 'comparing notes'. His battery was assaulted late one night, and they couldn't see anything. When the perimeter posts started yelling (over the field-phones) the ***s were close enough to be using grenades, the guns started firing 'beehives' into the night. The next morning, the troops quit bothering with the tally when the body count went over 100 in the first fifteen minutes..... Oh, and that was when there was enough to be sure this was =one= body, not two or more. [i think he said the officers finally just gave up, counted the heads they could find and let it go at that...] [ January 21, 2004, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: exSpecForSgt ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletRat Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Jeez, us humans sure can think up nice ways to kill each other. Scary innit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappie Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Another effective addition to the "beehive" round,also know as splintex was a timed fuse. So now not only engage the enemy directly in front but now you engage the following assault wave. This was succesfull, also in Vietnam with the battle of Fire Support Base Coral. http://users.mildura.net.au/users/marshall/coral/coral.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Originally posted by exSpecForSgt: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Emrys: My knowledge of the subject is less than comprehensive, but I believe grapeshot fell somewhere between a ping-pong ball and a tennis ball in size. They did in fact also have a cannister round which consisted of musket balls.Sorry, but "grapeshot" and "cannister" was essentially the same thing: a canvas (usually) 'bag' with =lots= of musket balls. It was =extremely= effective against infantry at (relatively) close ranges. Now, there -was- a composite 'round' that consisted of either 9 or 12 "meatballs" {my term for them, since they were about the size of my G'mother's Sunday afternoon meatballs} and enough musket balls to 'round out' the package. They were used at sea when you got reasonably close to your target to sweep the decks. The 'meatballs' were large enough to tear through most things found on decks - small boats, barrels, cabin walls, etc - as well as the planking on the top part of the sides (the gunnels?? - sorry, I'm not a 'squid'). The musket balls were merely 'packing' .. but if they took out someone along the way, great! This round was not used ashore because it was a waste of time and storage space [for artillery requirements on land].</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Leopard Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 I noticed that everyone talk about what sizes of "canister" like ping pong or grape or maybe honeybee (LOL). Texans at Alamo don't care about what sizes "pellet" is but they stuffed silverwares and jagged piece of metal into cannon then fire at emeny as they assulted to their fort made of mud. "Remember the Alamo" I bet that Texan yell "fork in your eyes" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRSutton Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Effective ammo but very wearing on rifled gun barrels. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code13 Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Sorry exSpecForSgt, but you need to go back and do some reading. Grapeshot was used on rigging, and was found to be very effective for it, as was chainshot. Chainshot was not liked so much becuase it had far too high a tendency to foul the barrels. Case shot also varied in form between, as has been stated bags containg musket balls and thin wooden tubes containg shards of metal. larger shots. Cannister 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 As a postscript to this discussion, I should add that many years ago I owned a grapeshot, probably from the Civil War era. As I recall, it was about 2.5 inches or so in diameter. It had been cast in a two part mold and was very lopsided, so it could not have been fired as a solitary shot out of a cannon, but would work just fine as grapeshot. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
With Clusters Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Off topic (sort of), but I remember a story from some old Uni history class about the Battle of New Orleans (1815) being pretty much won by a cannon being loaded chock to the brim full of gravel and what not (I guess nothing more usefull being at hand) that layed low the last British charge. Does that ring a bell with anyone, or did I just have a crazy prof? Bear with me, its my first post here 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by With Clusters: Off topic (sort of), but I remember a story from some old Uni history class about the Battle of New Orleans (1815) being pretty much won by a cannon being loaded chock to the brim full of gravel and what not (I guess nothing more usefull being at hand) that layed low the last British charge. Does that ring a bell with anyone, or did I just have a crazy prof?I never heard the story before, so I can't even guess as to its verity, but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't do the job. I reckon it might not be something you'd want to do as a regular thing because the stones would have a tendency to score the inside of the barrel. But if the 60th. Regiment of Foot is bearing down on you with bayonets fixed and a grim look in their eyes, the last concern on your mind would be barrel life. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shosties Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 A coworker of mine was a USMC 'Nam vet who claimed to have built a number of devices for firebase perimitter protection that he called "King Claymores". The "Geneva-Approved" Mk. II variant was a 55-gallon drum that was filled with rocks gathered from patrols (a sign was put up: "price of admittance: one bag of rocks"). The open end had a cover welded over it and the back end had a shaped charge strapped to it. These were placed to cover a draw that was an ideal route for infiltrating towards the base. The Mk. I that got him into some trouble had been filled with broken bolts and machining scrap and refuse of, err, biological nature. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Shosties4th, I read about a Vietnam War improvised weapon for firebase defense called a fougasse. It consisted of a 55 gallon drum of fuel, atop which was placed a roll of barbed wire or razor tape. At the bottom of the drum went a C4 charge. The fougasse was semiburied in the ground, and when detonated, the C4 not only blasted the drum apart, hurling burning fuel in a fiery swathe, but shredded the barbed wire/razor tape into a multitude of sharp, high velocity fragments. It may not have been JAG approved, but it was terribly effective when VC/NVA tried to overrun the base. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Marshal Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 Splintex rounds, the Aussie version of canister is lethal. For a 105mm gun, a round contains thousands of steel darts, the size of a small nail with little fins for stability in flight. The increased flight stability of this design gives extra range and can be fired with slight elevation giving a descent kill zone over a larger area at distance. Good stuff, pity its not available for the Australians in CMAK 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aco4bn187inf Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Regarding the above post about fougasse: it was also a weapon used by the Germans in WWII. They had remote controlled one shot flamethrowers buried in the ground with a nozzle to direct the blast forward. They called it fougasse. I saw it in a book at Barnes & Noble, can't remember the title. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergerbitz Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 And speaking of fougasse, here's an interesting site I came across a little while ago. I don't get to this part of the forum much anymore. It's a very informative place. Oh, here's the link. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJonez Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Didn't the British have some massive thing set up along the coast to catch the water on fire in case of German invasion? They called that fougasse too. It was like a pipeline under the channel that could be turned on from shore, and the stuff that came out burned on contact with seawater. So it'd catch the surface of the water on fire once it floated up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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