SeaLion Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 There was a 6 barreled rocket launcher used by Germany late in the war called the Nebelwerfer. It fired massive rockets and only needed a crew of four or five. When fired it had a scream like a Banshee and often did portend the death of Soviet troops unlucky enough to be caught in the blast. Has anyone here ever read about this weapon who can verify what I'm saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrett Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Yeah, thats about right. more info here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samba_liten Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Im pretty sure its in the game. Might not be called Nebelwerfer though. But most of the German rocket artillery should be this kind of thing. Im sure someone who knows will be along shortly though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrett Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Yep, Samba, you're correct. German rocket spotters= Nebelwerfers and Russian rocket spotters= Katyushas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Nebelwerfer first fired in the opening arty bombardment of operation Barbarossa, they actully predate Katyushas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaLion Posted July 8, 2003 Author Share Posted July 8, 2003 This is a good-looking weapon that they should have mounted on a medium bomber. The rockets could have been pointed on a 20 degree downward slope so that the plane could fly level and still saturate the target area. I'll bet a good pilot could be more accurate with this than with level bombing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Wildman Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Sealion, I find you humorous. Thank you for the entertainment, I was having a bad day and that comment made it all better. Please continue with the vapid opinions, I truly do enjoy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Extracted after a search!!! I was setting up another June 1941 game and was surprised by the variety of Rocket artillery available to both sides at the start of the war. German June 1941 158mm Rocket – 36 tubes 108 Ammo This is presumably the 150mm Nebelwerfer 41 or more properly called the Wurfgranate 41? (could fire He or smoke) Presumably this represent a battery of six – each of which has six launchers. (Ok apart from disagreement over calibre this is ok) 280mm 36 tubes 72 ammo This is presumably 280mm Wurfkorper Spreng Incendiary Rocket 337mm. Is this the 320mm Wurrfkorper MF1 50 that had an incendiary warhead in heavy liquid form? These two-rocket systems service date starts in 1940 and originally had wooden carrying crates that doubled as launcher platforms. Seen period photos of them been fired singly from the ground or could be mounted on the sdkfz 251 with six rockets or other vehicles including captured French tanks sometimes with only four Rockets. Again only small argument over calibre. The Germans used Rocket artillery from the beginning of the war. Four Nebelwefer Regiments of the Wehrmacht were among many artillery units that opened fire on June 22nd of 1941 at 3:15am, beginning the Operation "Barbarossa". Russian June 1941 132mm M-13 64 tubes 82mm M-8 64 tubes This time we have the luxury of knowing what system is represented. I have issues with such an early representation as it is known that Red Army used rocket artillery for the first time on July 14/15th 1941, firing at the rail station at Orsza (controlled by the Army Group Centre) on the Minsk-Moscow route. As far as I am aware the Russians at this time had only one battery operational and Stalin considered them a state secret and the battery was carefully guarded by the NKVD. I am not sure what type was used on this occasion but I have always assumed it was the M-13 on Zis trucks Therefor Russian rocket systems should not appear in the game until July and be very rare on this occasion. Although it is known that the Russians put a lot of effort into researcher multiple rocket systems in the 1930s and the M-8 ad M-13 were designed in the late 1930s. I am not sure when Russian Rocker systems start to become common – I would suspect Oct/Nov 1941 at the earliest. Like the Germans a wide variety of launcher platforms were used including T-70 tanks, and Studebakers, Fords, Chevrolets trucks. Late in war armour-piercing and flare rocket types were produced for the BM-13. Checked for June 1942 and by then following had been added to lists by then German Rocket 214mm Probably the 210mm Nebelwerfer 42 or 21cm Wurfgranate 42 Spreng. If so the date of introduction is to early because it first went into action on the Russian Front in 1943 as problems with the launcher design delayed its introduction. The tubes were reduced from 6 to 5. Russian Rocket 300mm M-30 These were first fired from their Rama frames in German fashion sometimes diretly at tanks and houses at close range. In March 1944 a mobile launcher was introduced that carried 12 rockets on a Zis–6 truck. Only had HE warheads and the range was much shorter than the other systems limiting its use. Info from the Achtung Panzer site and WWII: The Directory of Weapons book. To sum up for 1.02 patch can Russian Rockets be moved back to July at least and be made a bit uncommon until 1942, the German Rocket 214mm is to early if I am right in thinking that is the 210mm Nebelwerfer 42 its entry date should be Spring 43 (February - my guess on this exact month). Pretty please with holly on top. Maybe also adjust calibre of German Rockets as listed in game. [ December 17, 2002, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Mark Gallear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeinzBaby Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 I read of the katyushas first being used at Smolensk, which, used for the first time, broke and panicked the German Infantry off the line. Being such a topsecret weapon all Russian Rocketry was manned by the NKVD and any unfortunate to be captured were shot... I had read this decades ago and can't remember the source but because of the fleeing germans this always stuck. Maybe just another urban myth but sounds plausable because all the best Russian gear was not always deployed 'up front' in the shop window'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by SeaLion: This is a good-looking weapon that they should have mounted on a medium bomber. The rockets could have been pointed on a 20 degree downward slope so that the plane could fly level and still saturate the target area. I'll bet a good pilot could be more accurate with this than with level bombing. Ummmm....this 20 degree angled rocket thingy mounted on a plane. Have you considered what would happen to the plane from the backblast when the rockets were fired? Would the pilots of said planes need to be of Japanese extraction and have a fanatical devotion to the Fuhrer? (As opposed to the Pope). Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ng cavscout Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 I read in "A Bridge Too Far" by C. Ryan about a test model of larger caliber Nebelwerfer used at Arnhem. Has anyone heard any other references to this system? Could that be the 158 mm referred to in an earlier post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phemur Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Have you considered what would happen to the plane from the backblast when the rockets were fired?I'd also be concerned with the weight of the contraption. How much would the tubes and ammunition weight? Also, since it would necessarily need to be attached to the outside of the aircraft (again, due to backblast), what medium bomber would have enough ground clearance to have it strapped to its underbelly? Phemur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Nebelwerfers were also used on the Western Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaLion Posted July 8, 2003 Author Share Posted July 8, 2003 The back blast from the launch would be shunted through an S-shaped exhaust panel and thus wouldn't harm the plane. The weight would be no problem if they used my patented turbo liftfan technology. And to give the missiles ground clearance, you obviously mount them above the airplane and have them firing downward. This is not vapid -- it's just as good as my idea to mount the Iraqi super gun on the space shuttle Columbia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickeeMao Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Originally posted by SeaLion: The back blast from the launch would be shunted through an S-shaped exhaust panel and thus wouldn't harm the plane. The weight would be no problem if they used my patented turbo liftfan technology. And to give the missiles ground clearance, you obviously mount them above the airplane and have them firing downward. This is not vapid -- it's just as good as my idea to mount the Iraqi super gun on the space shuttle Columbia. Oops, looks like another R&D specialist has escaped from RAND - get back to work, you! As for those of you who happened to read the above posting, you're all under arrest, as you've been made aware of future US weapons development plans. Report to the Donald Rumsfeld Recreational Gulag immidiately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaLion Posted July 9, 2003 Author Share Posted July 9, 2003 It's not a joke. My idea is to take auto plants around the country and give each of them a couple of parts to mass produce. This way we could get DaimlerChrysler Space Shuttles coming off the assembly line almost as fast as minivans. Each shuttle would have some sort of weapon in the cargo bay -- my earlier idea was to have maverick missiles but I checked the range and, no, the range isn't enough to make it to the Earth. So I guess they will have to take 88 mm instead. Also you could mount a gatling on some and basically make it an anit-personel orbital weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaLion Posted July 9, 2003 Author Share Posted July 9, 2003 I mean anti-personel weapon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ng cavscout Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Sea Lion, you don't need a "gun". Propellant is unnecessary, just drop crowbars with a simple seeker head and some manuevering fins. Gravity will give it a hell of a punch from orbit. I didn't think of this, it was in the book "Footfall" by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaLion Posted July 9, 2003 Author Share Posted July 9, 2003 No, that just gives the enemy easy acces to weapons. Do you want to fight 18 million soldiers armed with crowbars? Plus they think the weapons were given to them by God and that just makes them fight harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Originally posted by SeaLion: The back blast from the launch would be shunted through an S-shaped exhaust panel and thus wouldn't harm the plane. ... On the assumption that you are merely a loon, rather than a troll, I have to ask the following questions: 1) Do you know why these weapons have a backblast? 2) Do you know what effect having your "S-shaped exhaust panel" (which sounds rahter like the S-bend in any toilet - about where your idea belongs) would have on the principle outlined in 1) above? Regards JonS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Were not certain Henschels equipped with downward-firing anti-tank weaponry? A MAD detector hooked up to a cannon or somefink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illo Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Sorry to spoil you fun, but Werfergranate 21cm was really used (and widely) by luftwaffe aircraft. Also other calibers were used. WGr. 21cm WGr. 32cm I couldnt find any good english language sites telling about conversion, but here's one in german: http://www.balsi.de/werfer.htm [ July 08, 2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: illo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illo Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Originally posted by Phemur: Also, since it would necessarily need to be attached to the outside of the aircraft (again, due to backblast), what medium bomber would have enough ground clearance to have it strapped to its underbelly? Phemur [/QB]Not necessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaLion Posted July 9, 2003 Author Share Posted July 9, 2003 To JonS : Why do you have to resort to name calling ? Why do you have to resort to insults? Occasionally I meet someone like you in life, someone full of negative comments and unpleasant quips. At first I dislike them, and then later I see inside them, through a chink in their armor, the image of someone deeply unhappy. However, even they should still try to be professoinal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ng cavscout Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 I think JonS needs a time out, maybe he should start liking himself, then he can like everyone else..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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