Biltong's Campaign Rules

[Biltong]

Just asked this question in another thread:

What would you like from a BCR/CMAK campaign? And specifically: Would you like to play from the Axis side again or from the Allied side?

What else?

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Concerning last question on the thread: "How to deal with Battle Group in BiltAid"

BiltAid starts with a default campaign for BCR '41 South. This is pre-loaded with the Battle Group. To start with something different you have to use the Custom campaign option and input by hand your Battle Group. Readme notes explain how to do that.

What is currently missing is the update feature for the Battle Group. That is, to do changes one has to use again the Custom campaign feature. Maybe in the future I will add a "Edit Battle Group" as I added the "Edit Date" command on the main panel. This would allow not to go via the Custom Campaign to do even smallest updates to Battle Group units (eg, updating a PzIIc to a PzIII)

In the meanwhile, since some BiltAid computation rely on the results of previous battles (for cases like immediate attack/counter-attack) to keep things square use the Custom Campaign workaround when the next battle is scheduled days ahead (this would still affect the Large Battle computation but it is truly a minor side-effect).

Cheers

[Foobar]

OK, I have a couple tech support questions. I am enjoying the biltong campaign so far, but I dont know what I am supposed to do next

-I am using Biltaid- It has generated the parameters for my second mission

-I have finished filling out my Battle Group Sheet, and my Favor sheet

question 1- How do I handle replacements for my unit? (I only lost my PZIV in the battle, no other casualties)

question 2- I would REALLY like to play with the map packs- but I ca find no identifying markers telling me when or where to use the different maps and packs of maps. Do i just take the battle maps in order, and ignore the parameters generator?

question 3- What do I "buy" replacements or upgraded and new units with? Favor?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Foobar]

bump!

[Snowbart]

Captain Foobar,

Go to http://w1.211.telia.com/~u21117402/biltong/

Download the "BCR Map List" zip file, read the instructions there. You create a folder in your CMBB folder called "BCR Maps", or whatever you want to call it. On the second tab of that excel sheet, there is a a huge list of all the maps and each specific characteristic of it.....ie, hilliness, tree coverage, size, what type of battle, etc. Using the paramaters you rolled up for your battle, pick the closest description out of the map list to what you rolled up. The far right section of the list tells you which map pak you'll find this map in. DL that map pak and look for the name of the map you picked. Copy it into your "BCR Maps" folder you made. Whalla...now you're done.

Now, i suggest going to the editor, load that map, pick out your Battle Group and adjust the specific qualities for each unit, and then hit "save"(in the editor), and save this map in the "Quick Battle Maps" folder. Now all thats left is starting a Quick Battle, and when you get to the map settings, hit "load from file"....and load the file you just saved, and tell it to import the troops as well. Now simply buy your Task Force and youre good to go!

For replacements....look at note 18. After you determine the quality of the replacements you'll be getting in #58, plug the numbers into the equation to see what their After Replacement Exp will be.

Hope this helps.

[Snowbart]

Originally posted by Biltong:

Just asked this question in another thread:

What would you like from a BCR/CMAK campaign? And specifically: Would you like to play from the Axis side again or from the Allied side?

What else?

Something to address leadership qualities for Platoon/Co. HQ's.

I would want to under the Desert fox! :cool:

It always seams as though most people like playing as Germans, and I'm one of them. But then again, these will be different Allied opponents, not these crappy Ivans

So maybe more people would want to play as Allies in CMAK than in CMBB. But I still believe most people would rather be Fritzes.

Maybe you could tailor it so you could choose which side you want to play as?

[Foobar]

Thanks Snowbart!

I am sure this will simply take some getting used to..

My last detective work, is in trying to determine what steps Biltaid takes care of, and which steps I need to do myself.

Does Biltaid determine if/when I get to take replacements?

[Foobar]

Bump for question-

Anywhere I can find out what Biltaid does and does not do for you?

I am trying to determine my replacements

[Snowbart]

Hey Foobar,

Can't help you with Biltaid, but I think there is info at that same site I posted earlier. I just use pencil and paper and die. Good luck

[atiff]

Originally posted by Biltong:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Snowbart:

...

Question time: Do you not gain any experience points for destroying guns(AT, field, mortars, etc.)? I know you do for knocking out pillboxes, but what about just regular guns?

....

Nope - Simply too easy - no reward for that - all in a day's work

The premise I used, is what would you get a medal for (as an infantry man). </font>

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by *Captain Foobar*:

Bump for question-

Anywhere I can find out what Biltaid does and does not do for you?

I am trying to determine my replacements

BiltAid does not get you into 1942 (yet). For the rest it covers everything (vs 1.0.4).

Specifically on replacement: both normal and emergency replacement (ie reorganization) is taken care by BiltAid.

Your Battle Group units are managed according replacement rules. In case of an emergency reorganization some attached units might disappear, some Battle Groups might be left with zero men which indicates you have to move them off the map at turn one to get the moral penalty.

The readme notes explapins what BiltAid do. BiltAid covers 100% BCR 41 South rules: I use BiltAid on my laptop hence I do not even need to printout results. From BiltAid screens I input directly parameters on CMBB and off with next battle. Time to do that... a couple minutes at most.

Same to input battle results into BiltAid and let it cover my experience/favor.units update. Using BiltAid on the laptop I have CMBB after battle Map, use "+" to cycle through units and report their AAR details on BiltAid. Time: a couple more minutes.

With BiltAid you use the rules to understand what happens in a BCR campaign and then forget all the bookkeping, rules dependencies, pencil, modifiers and die rolls.

To resume all that: if you like pencil and paper and actually enjoy doing that as part of the fun then use pencil and paper. If that is more a chore and prefer to jump into next battle as soon as possible then use BiltAid.

Cheers

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Biltong:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scarhead:

...The heavies are both just above 100 now. With some caution (or aux in front) they seldom die. IIc is at 76. Even my attached 231/8 is crack now...

But CO did it, too - 61 points now, a squad has 65. Others are less lucky.

Maybe award only 1/2 point for each tank, give another 1/2 point for guns, halve the points for inf.

Thought of the same thing, but I want to hold on a bit longer. You might just be an exception or very good/carefull with your armor... Once I hear the same thing from a number of guys with 20+ battles behind them, I'll change the rules. More than likely just up the minimum kills needed to earn points. </font>

[Joachim]

Edited 'cause delete doesn't work.

[ April 28, 2003, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: Scarhead ]

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Snowbart:

...Something to address leadership qualities for Platoon/Co. HQ's.

This should get done long beforehand - scheduled for 43 South in fact

I would want to under the Desert fox! :cool:

It always seams as though most people like playing as Germans, and I'm one of them. But then again, these will be different Allied opponents, not these crappy Ivans

So maybe more people would want to play as Allies in CMAK than in CMBB. But I still believe most people would rather be Fritzes.

Maybe you could tailor it so you could choose which side you want to play as?

This would be one hell of a task. There are different modifiers for each nation/opponent. A generalized set of rules won't work IMHO - battles will be too easy or difficult. In fact it looks like CMAK might have to be broken into different smaller campaigns, even if playing from the Axis side.

Might be an idea to have 2 main campaigns: Axis in the desert and an Allied force in Italy.

The Italian campaign worries me, since it could be just one long series of assaults.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Scarhead:

... But I guess that Kiev-Suburbs will stop my dream (nightmare that is) from getting veteran...

LOL... Do mail me some feedback (for each battle if you can). I'm starting with Stalingrad and would like to get it spot-on! I need feedback

[Joachim]

Originally posted by SuperSulo:

I finally finished the Kiev Battle Pack! It was great fun, hope more like this will be released.

The last battle, Bridges of Blood, was correctly named, trust me. I faced Guards infantry, weather rain. I took it VERY slow, and got a Total Victroy. I got to the last big VF with less than 8 turns left.

This map must be impossible for the attacker vs a human (with normal force ratios), and the AI put up a good fight. I have a suggestion about the layout, who do I send it to, Biltong? Can't say it here, it would spoil it for others.

RE: Armor gaining experience

They DO gain experience faster than infantry. But I think that's ok. I had 40 battles in '41, and my panzers ended up with 43, 124 and 118 (IIC, III, IV). I was very careful with them (at least the III and IV), and they must have made it unscratched for at least the last 28 battles. The III must have at least 60 confirmed tank-kills with it's current crew. They have faced KV1's and hordes of T-34's. That sounds like Crack units to me. Just for comparrasing, my most experienced infantry unit has 79, not that far off.

Kiev outskirts

Finished Kiev Outskirts yesterday - Clear, but Large town restricted Air (which I had gotten), 550 of arty vs Armor, Soviet Guards at High Quality. Read: I had two dozen crack light tanks and 2 crack T34 against me. Glad that a green sIG somehow irritated them enough to keep them around the factories while I sneaked my grunts towards the big VL, then tried to rush single tanks there, too. Those 2 PzIIIj who covered the road and a StuG were killed, My IIIg got stuck in the trees just behind those bridges, but my attached (vet) sIG got towed across the bridges and happily took down several buildings, even if the few (crack) guard squads there were no match for my assault. Soviet losses till then amounted to a reinforced crack guards plt, two bunkers and a dozen or more light tanks - plus a crack T34 who had killed a IIIj.

When the AI counterattacked, I had nothing to stop that second T34 supported by several light tanks from entering the walled area, likely finishing my IIIg on the way. CO led an attack with two pioneer squads vs the tanks - just buying time - as my infantry was still busy cleaning the area and fending off an inf attack from another direction. I intended to shuttle my attached siG to guard the bridges and concentrate my tanks there. Not that hail fire vs crack T34 works, but just to keep the small tansk away and allow the grunts to close assault. Luckily time ran out...

Kiev Suburbs

After 21 turns into the Kiev suburbs (rain&fog, viz 200m, SO low quaility cav +50%, GE with help from mot PzGren Plt (reg), 2 Pio plt, another PzIIc and IIIG plus a plt of StuGIIIB and a single 81mm spotter) only a suicidal dash with my tanks could take the big VL.

The cathedral is held by my crack plt with HMG support, the sIG and a few tanks here fixed the Soviets in the stretch of woods while a right hook and an attack along the right alley secured the right VL and allowed me to turn left to attack the center VL. Alas, the sIG itself is fixed in this role and I guess I can't move it safely before turn 26, ie I can't use it to flatten some houses in my offense before turn 31 while my plan relied on it supportig the attack on the center VL as of turn 20 or earlier.

Reinforcements from the Soviet right flank have to come across the churchyard in view of the cathedral, then cross a paved area. Reserves from the Soviet rear have to cross a 40m wide alley in view of MGs and tanks. That center VL will soon fall into my hands. If I don't loose to many men, 3 guns, 3 prisoners and about 100 SO causalties plus 2 minor VLs should just about equal the minor and major VL held by the Soviets. But I don't see how I could advance further towards the huge VL - I need at last 3 plts and some tanks to hold those two VLs, and a single Company with only a few tanks attached will just vanish in an attack. From the numbers of MGs and type of guns I destroyed I guestimate Soviet strength is a Cav battalion plus reinforcements.

But maybe I'm just gun shy - a draw now will stop me from getting Veteran... I tend to preserve my men and tanks too much. My tanks follow the infantry in attacks. They are a mobile reserve, and in this role excel in the defense, when I don't have to fear ATGs. They are no scouts themselves.

rgds

Joachim

[ April 28, 2003, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: Scarhead ]

[OBJ]

Biltong-

Couple, ideas to consider:

1. I'm combining two thoughts here, a series of battles like a CM operation, and APACHE’s idea of the support units coming generally from the same 'pool' e.g. reinforced battalion. Core force and support ‘pool’ unit experience updates wouldn't be calculated until after the operation was complete. The experience for the 'pool' would need to be tracked and abstract updates applied when the units weren't being used by the player.

I think the increased data tracking requirements inevitably lead toward a programmed solution, either SeaHawk's biltaid, something like it, or code in the CM program itself. Of course the latter is what I want anyway, so I may be somewhat prejudiced! This way the player can't 'throw away' TF units without consequences.

2. Regarding allied campaigns in CMAK, I think it will be very challenging to take the green American troops that land in Morocco and Algiers to a successful conclusion in Tunis in May '43. The same can be said for the Brits in '41 after they send off their best units to Greece having beaten the Italians at Beda Fomm, just as Rommel and the AK show up.

IMHO, there's a lot of campaign 'drama' to be had in N Africa.

Regards

[SuperSulo]

I just played a battle and I just have to tell you about it.

Jan '42, allied attack. Allied forces unknown. Medium quality. Force size 1500 with 100% allied handicap. Turns out they are guards Armor force mix (most likely, or Combined Arms).

I had only my battle group and 200 pts taskforce. Bought a 37mm AT, 2 tankhunters, 3 MG's and some mines and trenches. Ammo 30%.

Weather was blizzard (of course...) and my men unfit.

The map was XXXXX (no spoilers!), it had 3 dynamic flags (where the attacker chooses which one is the real one, the two others are bogus and worth nothing). The flag they were driving to had this defending it: one platoon of my core infantry, the 2 company mg's, one tankhunter, 1 PzIIIJ, 1 StugIIIB and a 251/1.

The AI had 10 KV-1's! 4 T-34's, 15 T-60, 10 T-26S, 6 tankettes and 3 Matilda II. 1 Battalion Guards Rifle, 1 ind. Guards rifle platoon, 1 company Guards cavalry.

Looks like a fair fight, right? I got a total victory! Took out 4 KV-1, was working on a 5th with a TH, had got it immobile, 2 T-34, 7 T-60, 4 T-26S and 2 tankettes. 241 infantry casualties caused. My losses were: 1 PZIIIJ (one of the new guys), 1 251/1 and 18 men.

One TH knocked out 2 KV's, 1 T26 and immobilized a 3rd KV and they lived to talk about it.

Now, have anyone else noticed that the AI always seems to buy KV's? Gamey bastard. Now I wont feel so bad if I buy a Tiger or two later in 42.

And has anyone else played these dynamic flag maps? I must have been very lucky in my battle, since it forces the defender to split his forces 3 ways (or how many flags there are) and the attacker can concentrate all of his forces to only one flag. The bad weather/ground condition helped me too, I never saw the Matildas and 2 KV's for instance, and a lot of it's infantry never made it to the "front".

[Biltong]

Originally posted by OBJ:

...support units coming generally from the same 'pool' e.g. reinforced battalion. ...

If the Battalion could be changed on a regular basis it would be fine. One of the main purposes of the Task Force is to give players the opportunity/force them to play with a variety of units they won't normally choose themselves. Oh - and yes - preferably automated

2. Regarding allied campaigns in CMAK, I think it will be very challenging to take the green American troops that land in Morocco and Algiers to a successful conclusion in Tunis in May '43. The same can be said for the Brits in '41 after they send off their best units to Greece having beaten the Italians at Beda Fomm, just as Rommel and the AK show up.

IMHO, there's a lot of campaign 'drama' to be had in N Africa.

Regards

Yes - 2 good ideas there - on the list

[Snowbart]

Biltong,

I like your ideas. I think if you must concentrate on one campaign scenario, it must be the N Africa Axis campaign.

I need some clarification on the issue of casualties. This hasn't come up yet, but I imagine its not too far away. Say I role up 20% casualties (thereby receiving only 8 men). After the battle when I'm adding replacements and calculating exp., do I simply calculate the after battle experience for them like any other unit?

I guess my concern is if i have a unit ive protected as much as possible to gain exp., and then i role up "low" as replacements........i guess thats just the game??

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Scarhead:

...

Finished Kiev Outskirts yesterday ..

Great AAR's Acarhead

Any comments on the maps - what could be changed to make them more difficult/realistic/interesting etc. But e-mail me direct so as not to spoil it for the other guys

[Biltong]

Originally posted by SuperSulo:

I just played a battle and I just have to tell you about it.

...

One TH knocked out 2 KV's, 1 T26 and immobilized a 3rd KV and they lived to talk about it.

...

Wow - Knights Crosses all round - Anybody got a better result with a team or squad? Nice AAR SS

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Snowbart:

...

I need some clarification on the issue of casualties. ...Say I role up 20% casualties (thereby receiving only 8 men). After the battle when I'm adding replacements and calculating exp., do I simply calculate the after battle experience for them like any other unit?

I guess my concern is if i have a unit ive protected as much as possible to gain exp., and then i role up "low" as replacements........i guess thats just the game??

Yep - Unfortunately frostbite got them, they got lost in a blizzard, couldn't get to the battle in time - no fuel because the supply convoy was stuck in mud etc etc.

The East Front was a user-unfriendly place

[OBJ]

Biltong-

Any luck getting my e-mail with the unit and leader trait potential systems?

Regards,

[hobo]

Biltong - My vote is for the Allies in CMAK (though I admit I might not buy the game unless they put in a campagn feature). The primary reasons are as follows:

1. Getting tired of playing the Germans.

2. The AI cannot attack and the Italian campaign would stink playing the germans.

3. Didnt play the Brits much in CMBO and would like to learn their stuff.

Regards,

Hobo