Son of Hamchuck Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Hi, Been playing with the AI for a few weeks to get the hang of the sim, and had a strange occurance I can't seem to sort out. My worthy opponents' JS-1 tank took a knockout from an unknown source. It being an all armor scenario ( my design ), it would seem easy to find the culprit. However, replaying numerous times, and checking rounds present for my guys before/after the kill turns up a big zero. Whatever it is, it's very high velocity as there is no evidence of a round in flight during replay, just the crack of a phantom gun and a delay of a second or so. I appreciate the overwatch, but whoever this guy is, he's in another zip code:). Anyone run across a similar event, or have an idea as to what I might be missing? Thanks, Jeff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_no_one Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Could it have been friendly fire?Was the JS-1 penetrated or just KO'd? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 If your tank was buttoned up and knocked out by an unspotted distant enemy tank/gun it can appear to spontaneously erupt due to 'extreme' Fog Of War. If there were escorting vehicles/crunchies they would after a delay pick up the threat visually or, if not in LOS, by the sound of cannon fire depending on the engagement distance. edit - reread your problem - Sounds like a friendly fire situation You can save then surrender then check through all the individual tanks by seleting their kills info. That should show who took the credit for the mystery potshot. [ October 07, 2005, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: Wicky ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Do tanks do friendly fire? I don't think so, I've never seen it happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_no_one Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I was guessing that a round of HE may have been fired at something else,but instead hit nearby the JS-1 and KO'd it.Otherwise,if frenchfried_krautdog had no unit that fired at it,what could possibly be the answer? Send me my turn,Sergei :mad: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Nice theory, it is, but in CM shells just don't hit other vehicles than the intended target - even if the flight path went right through, it would not hit it. So friendly fire can it be not. Besides, if the opponent did hear a gun sound, then it would have been very easy for him to track down the source if the source was one of his own. My suggestion is that Krautdog_with_fries just missed the shooter. Human error, it happens. All turns were sent a minute ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Originally posted by Sergei: Nice theory, it is, but in CM shells just don't hit other vehicles than the intended target - even if the flight path went right through, it would not hit it. So friendly fire can it be not.I agree. Check out LOS, LOF, and You (or something like that) on the CMx2 forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_no_one Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Agreed.You are probably right about the human error. However,I did a poor job of explaining what I meant with my theory.I am aware that there can not be friendly fire in this manner in CMx1.What I am proposing is that another enemy unit to the rear(for example)of the JS-1 in question fired a round of HE at one of Krautdog's units,BUT the round didn't make it over a ridgeline(or whatever)and impacted the ground next to the JS-1 and KO'd it.I don't even know if that is possible,but aside from human error that is all I can come up with :shrug: Perhaps Krautdog can provide more insight and/or screenies to enlighten the situation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I suspect the answer may simply be that the original search wasn't careful enough. How many times did the first poster run tests? Did he spend a minute watching each and every vehicle that might have had a line of sight to see if it fired? Ammo tallies are very easy to get mixed up on -- I usually check them after I know for a fact that a unit fired. I wouldn't get too worked up about this unless I knew for sure that the search was rigorous. If the original poster is new to CM there's a lot he may be overlooking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Hamchuck Posted October 7, 2005 Author Share Posted October 7, 2005 Thanks for the feedback, I was just curious if anyone had run across this before. I was pretty thorough in my checking ( IMO ), and of course I could have missed something. I had show all move/targets on, and that showed only one LOS from my units, a SP gun pointed nearly 90 degrees away from JS-1 in question . Too bad there's no slowmo for playback, damned refs can never get the call right:). Would also be a nice feature to have a way to save a turn as a file for a future post mortem. But I nitpick, this is a really fantastic sim, very impressive, my only real complaint is it takes up way too much of my free time. Thanks again for all for your suggestions and input, this forum matches the game in quality! Jeff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Originally posted by Sergei: Do tanks do friendly fire? I don't think so, I've never seen it happen. They do in a night engagement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_KG_ThorsHammer Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Indeed, in night combat , a friendly unit can be pegged as an enemy and shot at as so before realizing they are friendly. Friendly fire is also a definate possibility. Planes will shoot up their own troops/tanks from time to time. Shells are correctly modelled in the game; if they miss a target, they continue on until impact. It is very possible one of your opponents other vehicles fired at one of yours and ko'ed his own tank. I've never seen a tank just get knocked out for no reason. At the end, there will be stats for every vehicle, and the kills even show friendly fire ones, so take a look at those and you should find something. I'd be happy to take a look at the video as I am quite curious. dbishop@mountaincable.net 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalgiris 1410 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Interesting, Chips & a Hotdog, did you actually see and hear the JS-1 get hit and penetrated by a shell during the movie playback and also did you hear an actual gun fire from somewhere (enemies?)close to the time frame? FF-KD if there was no shell hitting the JS-1 it may be a case that you are just seeing the tank being abandoned or being IDed as in a KO'd state by your side. The other thing it could have been is a ricochet although given the thickness of armour on a JS-1 I think this unlikely however. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww2steel Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 I have, on occasion had vehicles (including tanks) damaged by rounds hitting and damaging (eg- track) nearby vehicles, sometimes not damaging the original vehicle that was hit! I just had this happen with an HE on a pair of PzIII. I also remember an AP round not penetrating (don't remember if it fragmented or simply bounced off) and killing nearby infantry. As far as friendly fire goes, I have only seen it at night. Mike 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalgiris 1410 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 I was thinking about your incident FF-KD and if it still remains completely inexplicable then I have a suggestion for what to refer to this happenstance as. The JS-1 just 'cooked off a round in its own open main gun breech'! Check the JS-1's kill stats, the crew may have decided to destroy their own tank after realising how good an opponent they were up against in you in order to save their honour! BTW are you sure FF-KD that there were no aircraft around, even enemy one's that bagged one of their own? You can check by clicking on the tank during the movie especially at around the time just before the JS-1 is KOed. I only ask this because you didn't specifically say that there weren't any planes in your senario or that you had clicked on the enemy JS-1 during the movie playbacks to see what if anything was targetting it at around the same time. Mines? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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