Grpara Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Let's say that a T34 is under a cover armor order and is waiting for a German tank to come in the arc and in LOS.In the meanwhile, German infantry appears but it is quite far and is not a threat to the T34.The T34, not being threatened by the enemy infantry does not open fire and sticks to it's cover armor command. If the Russian commander wanted to fire to the advancing infantry and still kepp an eye for the enemy tank what would he do? 1st) Keep the cover armor command and issue a direct target command towards the infantry (without using the main gun?) 2st) Change the cover armor command to cover arc and thus giving freedom to the tank to fire at any target, THEN issue a direct target command to the enemy tank that is currently out of LOS but might become a valid target in the following round.According to the manual, units tend to stick to the direct order and will not miss the enemy tank if it comes into LOS in the following round. Finally a point that is not clear to me yet. -A T34 fires at enemy infantry. -T34's crew begin reloading HE to fire again -A german tank appears -As the tank is a bigger threat (or because the crew was under a cover armor command or because it was a direct fire order that became a valid target )the T34's crew decide to target it. -What happens then?Will the T34 suffer EXTRA reload time penalty given the fact that the HE reload proccess must be interrupted and begin AP reload? Or the first shell that will be fired from the T34 will simply be HE? Your thoughts on the matter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Carrot Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 CMBB does not model the changing of ammo. The current round up the spout is considered to be the right type. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 In reality they would use the hull MG while keeping the main gun at the point where the enemy tank will appear, but there is no way to do that in CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Hi Grpara: The cmbb manual is almost useless. You will not suffer an *extra* reload penalty for switching ammo per say, but it is very possible that your tank will be in the reloading process when the enemy armor appears, lessoning your chances to win the initiative. The t34 is horrible firing at ranges over 500 meters, so you really need the initiative to line up your shots. Everything just depends on the circumstances. What distance? which t34? what specific enemy tank are you expecting, etc. If you are waiting for a pzIIc to move into LOS of the t34, then set a "regular" cover arc pointed towards where you think he is approaching and forget about it . . . your tank is superior. If it is a stug or pzIVH or better . . .well, you shouldn't be fighting those head-on at 500 meters+ anyway (unless possibly t34/85). Ignoring those issues for a second, you really have a variety of options. Cmbb is like investing in the stock market . . . balancing risk based on what you know, in relation to what you do not. Your "1st)" option is reasonably conservative. Your t34 will fire off a few rounds and re-adjust to the potential enemy armor threat, ignoring the approaching infantry. Another option (again depends on many things) is to give the t34 a regular cover arc in the direction of the potential tank threat, and then target the infantry. If the infantry are far away and in or close to cover, AND there is no borg spotting from other friendly units, the enemy infantry will likely disappear quickly from the t34 LOS after a few reasonably placed HE rounds, the cover arc will then adjust the turret of t34 to the spot of the potential tank threat. This of course has its risks, but it is another option. Another idea is that the t34/76 has wonderful MG ability. If you are not "hull-down" in the direction of the approaching infantry, but you ARE "hull-down" in the direction of the potential armor threat (ideally, find a position like this!), you can give the t34 an armored cover-arc, and the t34 will still open up on the advancing infantry with its MGs. Pay attention to the enemy armor threat movement the turn before this. Even if you only have a sound contact, you should be able to tell if the enemy tank is on the move. If so, don't fire on the infantry. If not, expect that you "could" see him somewhere 20+ seconds into the turn, if at all. Your "2nd)" option is also fine. This a bit more risky though, because once the t34/76 buttons up from firing at the infantry, he does not spot very well at all. So don't expect the initiative if you do this. There are so many more options depending on the specifics of the situation, but there's a start. Hope this helps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Hi Alex, I´m happy to see you again looking for some assistance from more experienced players. As i´m a really nice opponent i tell you how i would handle the situation. "Never waste a shoot on infantry when you are expecting enemy tanks approaching" The possible loss of a tank is not worth it...only to pin or cause a loss of 1 or 2 inf. On the other hand i have to tell you i´m a genious in killing tanks with inf. In another game i knocked out two elephants with molokovs and grenates....and some mouses **lol** So please let them getting killed by my PZIVH´s. Although covered Arc and only about 350m is to your favour..... So let´s wait and see Cheers Mike 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Originally posted by Dragonheart: Hi Alex, I´m happy to see you again looking for some assistance from more experienced players. As i´m a really nice opponent i tell you how i would handle the situation. "Never waste a shoot on infantry when you are expecting enemy tanks approaching" The possible loss of a tank is not worth it...only to pin or cause a loss of 1 or 2 inf. On the other hand i have to tell you i´m a genious in killing tanks with inf. In another game i knocked out two elephants with molokovs and grenates....and some mouses **lol** So please let them getting killed by my PZIVH´s. Although covered Arc and only about 350m is to your favour..... So let´s wait and see Cheers Mike If Mike is coming at your t34/76 with panzerIVHs from 350 meters, I don't care what he says, it is NOT in your favor . . . .you will not win this armor battle whether you fire on the infantry or not. Fire on the approaching infantry, but give your t34 movement orders and get the hell out of there. hide that t34 behind some cover, so he cannot hit you unless he gets close. Once he get's close, pounce on him with your t34. Speed is the best friend of the t34, and it is generally far superior to the panzerIVH if used correctly, but the latter is key. DON'T take him on at range. Make him get close, and "fast" move to get a flank shot. Once he's close, try and find a way to distract his Panzer IV's turret to point in the "wrong" direction. For example . . .split a squad for a suicide mission . . .have the squad rush the panzerIV on the opposite side of where you intend to hit him with the t34, this will make his panzer turret turn the wrong way, and give you extra time for the kill. Even if he gives his panzer a cover arc to ignore the squad, once the squad gets close to the panzer it will ignore the cover arc and turn towards the squad. Timing is everything, so use the "pause" function to time the whole thing correctly. Good luck hunting. [ April 29, 2003, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Walpurgis Night ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldmeter Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 [ April 29, 2003, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: coldmeter ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grpara Posted April 30, 2003 Author Share Posted April 30, 2003 I'm glad this topic has attracted many players.Indeed there are many options including the one of not engaging at all. Walpurgis thanks for the suggestions.I generally agree and after some tests I saw that changing targets does not always work so good.I'll definetly post the outcome of this so keep an eye on this post. I found out that the priority of the orders is as following: -Direct target order to a visible unit -Cover arc of any kind -Direct order to a non visible unit The time that will take to leave the arc mode and target the pretargeted unit once it enters LOS, depends on the quality of the crew and the distance of the target AND the bearing of the turret at the given moment (of course).However the safer thing to do if one decides to engage the enemy armor is to stick to the cover armor command. Mike you should not be eyepeaking on my posts Weren't you supposed to be away for a couple of days? Just kidding See you on the field [ April 29, 2003, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Grpara ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 My spies are everywhere. :cool: I will leave this late afternoon for the countryside. (fishing) If it is possible to leave the office earlier i could send you my turn today before i leave. Bye Mike 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grpara Posted April 30, 2003 Author Share Posted April 30, 2003 Looking for excuses to get off work earlier? Anyway, have fun. Besides I'm going to Santorini for the weekend Alexander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grpara Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 The outcome of the battle was quite grim for me.I backed my t34, but later on I was engaged in two frontal tankbattles.One at 300 m and one much closer.In both cases, my tanks were taken out from the first enemy shot by Michaels Pz IVs. From now on, I'll try to avoid frontal tankbattles when playnig allies as I've learned the hard way. [ May 18, 2003, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: Grpara ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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