Michael Dorosh Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 reinald, the Germans had more types of equipment and more colours schemes than anyone else, hence the number of mods. That's simple math. I love the mods with the swastika flag (and the GD white helmet gets Andrew Fox top marks from me for that mod, too!) because you can see your tanks from one of the higher views; it's an aerial recognition device that really works. I have swastikas on my LANDSER and GD for CM websites, and I am certainly not a Nazi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reinald@berlin.com Posted August 18, 2003 Author Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by theike: I say ban him. I dont care to hear another word from that guy. Oh, what makes you so mad? That I point my finger at potential Neonazi activity? What is your problem? Did your mother get her head shaved in 1945 or what? I this you knocking on the door yelling "Juden raus!". You confirm my worst fears I had about this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Double post in case you didn't notice : Originally posted by eichenbaum: The eichenbaum website as it is now has everything to do with Operation Störfang. It's history. We can't do anything about that. It was on my planning list that as soon as I had finished I would make a Russian version. It WAS a swastika in the picture. If you look close you can see that is made blurry and bumpy. That is to make it unrecognizable. You're offended about what is left of it. To me it's the same as making a movie that takes place in WWII. You'll find these sign clearly visible all over the film. You should concern about organizations who do sympathize extreme right sided movements. Not some graphics on a website of a wargame. Games are made for fun, you're displaying it in a bad daylight. I don't think that's fair. Go on and scan the internet for real neo-nazi sites and make them life miserable. Never, I repeat never did anyone asked me about the graphics on my site in that way. And I have had visitors from many countries such as Israel. And if it would make you feel better, I'm willing to make my logo more blurry. But where is gonna stop ? You could go tell anybody not to pick the German side in CM because the might get extreme right ideas. (typo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reinald@berlin.com Posted August 18, 2003 Author Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by Juju: Well, if you're gonna have problems with AndrewTF (the maker of that, and countless other excellent mods), you're going to have problems with me ...If you think that brightly colored proudly displayed swastikas got a place in entertainment software the two of us indeed got a problem. I do not accept those no matter if you kick me out of this board or not. At least I'm no swastika-waving hypocrite like you and toe the line of my beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Ok... this is how i see it ok? I can understand your concern Reinald. Having alot of swastikas on the mods can make the community look pro-nazi in some peoples eyes, but i think that what germany is doing (in affect sweeping the "dirty" memorys under the rug) is the wrong way to go. After all, if we dont remember our history we are all doomed to repeat it. If we keep supressing the facts then they can be denied by the ones with a more sinister purpose... like the ones that claim the deathcamps never happened... The fact remains. German vehicles often used the german flag of that time to identify themselfs to their aircraft. The flag at that time had a swastika on it... if someone wants to make a true-to-life mod of an early-war german vehicle they are quite right in putting a flag on the bonnet. as for the proliferation of german mods, well lets just say that most people agree that the germans are more fun to mod... most american, british and soviet vehicles are green... whilst the germans are CAMOED! ... much more fun to mod... and the fact that alot of gray germans are being made is probarbly due to two things: 1st alot of us have been waiting to see these puppies since CMBO and 2´ndly these are quite the icons in most grognards wierd brains... most of us (im no grog tho) have grown up seeing pictures of panzergray tanks on the russian front and france (early war) and now we want to play with them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Oh, and the Iron Cross you keep talking about, guys, is really a Maltese Cross. The one on the side of the tanks in WW II was a Balkan Cross and the swastika was a Hakenkruez which was the symbol of peace in ancient Indian cultures, as well as North American Indian cultures (one American division had it for a symbol until, oh, December 1941)...the 45th changed to a Thunderbird after the outbreak of war against Germany. Considering reinalds CM website consists of two pictures and two downloads of scenarios of questionable lameness, he certainly has a lot of nerve calling in to question Eichenbaum's site, which from what I can tell, has.... a couple of pictures and a couple of scenarios. At least Eichenbaum has the talent to put up his pictures in 3D and let us rotate them. I suggest reinald is simply envious and won't let it go... In fact, the order for Operation Nahveirteidugungswaffe has already been given...reinald's marching orders are clear: "Seek out all CM sites better than mine....publicly attack them until public opinion forces them offline....today cyberspace, tomorrow the world..." The trouble is, I can't think of a site that sucks worse than reinald's - the only way it could suck more is if the links were broken (though they might be, I can't be bothered to download his....yawwwwn...scenarios.) So the witchhunt will continue. Andrew Fox is crafty - he only puts his stuff up on other people's sites. The wily closet Nazi! Uh oh, I hear the bootsteps at the door... [ August 17, 2003, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by reinald@berlin.com: ...I therefore think that we should pull the break a little on overmodding German vehicles and soldiers, cause it makes our community look bad and may damage CM as such. Wargaming isn't actually a socially-accepted pasttime over here and it doesn't help wargaming when it can be linked to bright swastikas on HT sprites. Reinald, what makes our community look bad are self-declared, arrogant witch hunters like yourself. You personally attacked Eichenbaum in that other thread without any reason and in fact caused an interesting thread to be closed. A simple question might have been far more useful than your wild accusations. And not enough, in the same thread you attacked one of the most respected members of this community (Juju), again wholly unprovoked. Now you propose that we "...pull the break a little on overmodding German vehicles and soldiers, cause it makes our community look bad and may damage CM as such..." Are you serious? You do know that the vehicles with the swastika flag are one option among many other historical variants? You do know that other countries have different laws concerning the display of the swastika? You do know that every person should be able to decide by himself You are a troll. You are either ignorant, stupid or arrogant. Most probably all of the above. Have a nice day. PS: I liked how you lectured Madmatt on free speach and fairness on his own forum. I'm sure this will greatly improve your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pud Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 eichenbaum Let me be one of many who would like to compliment you on your site. Your input to this community is certainly appreciated more than any anal retentive troll wandering through looking for a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theike Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I dont care to spent another word on this. This guy is truely of a weirdos nature cheers my friend, have a nice provocating life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reinald@berlin.com Posted August 18, 2003 Author Share Posted August 18, 2003 Sorry, Eichi. I do not regret any of my previous posts cause I don't give a f@ck on how blurry you make your swastika. It just has no place in a signature picture and you are damaging the reputation of the game we both play. All I can tell you is to go to hell and not forget to take your swastika buckle with you before your daddy matt also closes this topic. [typo] [ August 17, 2003, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: reinald@berlin.com ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by Pud: eichenbaum Let me be one of many who would like to compliment you on your site. Your input to this community is certainly appreciated more than any anal retentive troll wandering through looking for a fight. Thanks Pud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THumpre Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by reinald@berlin.com: Sorry, Eichi. I do not regret any of my previous posts cause I don't give a f@ck on how blurry you make your swastika. It just has no place in a signature picture and you are damaging the reputation of the game we both play. All I can tell you is to go to hell and not forget to take your swastika buckle with you before daddy matt closes this topic. Goodbye Reinald, you won't be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you could at least attempt to defend your position rationally. Unfortunatly this turns out the be a false hope. You accuse the community of pro-Nazi bias but it is you who turn them into an almighty power buy giving them ownership of every symbol they ever used. Quite a feat when you consider the swastika predates the Nazis by centuries. American indians use it as a good luck symbol so I guess we should start rounding them up now. You do realize that there are two sides to any of the scenarios out there don't you? I have yet to find one that doesn't have Soviet as well as German troops. Sure there are some that are unbalanced for either side but on the whole they balance out or they don't get played. Try my "Model" campain and tell me how uber-German it is. It is fact that the Wehrmacht is one of the most studied militaries in history. Most of which has absolutly nothing to do with Nazi-ism. For that period they did posses the uber weapons. People like to do well in games and it is easier to do as the Germans. Does that mean you have to be a Nazi to realize this, not hardly. Why are you not throwing accusations of communist sympathizer at those who mod the Soviet vehicles? The fact is that you threw out accusations with no basis and refuse to admit that you screwed up. Luckily most Germans I have met do a much better job of realizing the mistakes in their country's past and can discuss the subject rationally. I would advise you to try to do the same, it makes life a lot less stressful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theike Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 one last word from me: Noone, and i do mean noone besides the blamer himself has spoken any discriminating ore demaening words about anybody. yet read back and youll see he's full of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 oh and... for crist sake! its only a game! but a game that strives for realism... that means including swastikas and ss runes and whatever... if it didnt it would be like pretending the nazis never happened! and that would be a BIG mistake... personally i find it more fun to play with the germans in late war... mainly because they are often the underdog... and by the way... are you not going to accuse the modders and BFC of being communists too? after all alot of red stars and hammer and scicle are on the vehicles in the game and the ones being modded... dont be so hasty in your judgement... alot of the guys modding those swasikas on vehicles are also modding some damned fine red stars onto t-34s... :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewinder Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Saying someone is a neo fascist because they make a historical mod for a game about a PERIOD IN HISTORY is about as intelligent as someone calling you jew hating nazi because you are from Berlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reinald@berlin.com Posted August 18, 2003 Author Share Posted August 18, 2003 Whoh, if that ain't sexy? All those Nazi admirers trying to get me out of the door as soon as any way possible. It's "Juden raus!" for the guy raising uncomfortable questions. I'm really sorry that serious discussion has failed and that nothing will change. I'm not comfortable with hammer&sickle mods either, but the problem is that they are so few compared to all the Swasti-lover-delights offered. And, after having read all the hateful posts directed towards me above, please nobody tell me the **** about how cool camoed German hardware was and how this attracts modders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by reinald@berlin.com: please nobody tell me the **** about how cool camoed German hardware was and how this attracts modders. heehee, now the German is barking orders at us! Achtung! (clicks heels) Jawohl, zum befehl! We will get right on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Michael : At least Eichenbaum has the talent to put up his pictures in 3D and let us rotate them.You know that I'm working on a 3d model of the conference room of the Reichstag (old version). How shocking those imprints on the chairs might be ? mmmmm.... what about those images on Discovery Channel ? You couldn't do any documentary's about Adolf ? (typo) [ August 17, 2003, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: eichenbaum ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavka_lite Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I think whats his name has run full face into that little American quirk of "I may not like what you say but I'll defend your right to say it to my last breath." Eichenbaum is not harming any body with his site and, yes, Whats-his-name has the same right to critisize ( and face the reprecussions) as any one else. But if he wants to bash people that he thinks is threatening his little myopic world why doesn't he go after the real neonazis or the KKK. They have plenty of websites where the intent is to display the objectionable symbols with full meaning and intent! Stop the baiting already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixthArmy Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Funny how ppl decorate all their **** w/ swastikas. There's no reason for it. Then you act like Rein is the one w/ a problem. Whatever You should see how much Rein promotes CM in all the other BBS he visits. He loves this game. He loves it so much he risks getting banned so the nazi boys won't take over. If you can check by email (i have no idea), you'll see I've purchased games from battlefront. Have fun nazi boys. Plenty of good games out there I'll stay away from these. Ban me too see if I give a ****. I won't be back anyway. Bye. Admin you are an ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reinald@berlin.com Posted August 18, 2003 Author Share Posted August 18, 2003 Originally posted by Oddball_E8: and by the way... are you not going to accuse the modders and BFC of being communists too? after all alot of red stars and hammer and scicle are on the vehicles in the game and the ones being modded... No I don't cause they simply ain't got hammer&sickle buckles as their sig pics. There's a difference between historical realism and Nazi (or Commie)-admiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 To give this sorry excuse of a thread a least a little meaning: Oddball, I once downloaded your sound mods for CMBB, I really like them. Thx a lot! At least I think it was you who made them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 ok... i have to add this: in the past people have been banned from this community for being pro-nazi... would that happen if the community was pro-nazi? of course some people have been banned for just being arrogant arsholes... and im afraid that you are in the risk of being banned for just that... its ok to voice your oppinion... but not to stuff it down someones neck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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