joeski Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 I've noticed it takes a lot longer in CMBB to make 90-degree and 180-degree turns with tracked vehicles from a standstill in open ground. A 180-degree turn can take a full 60 seconds. What I'm wondering is this true in RL? And has anyone found a way to speed it up? [ January 14, 2003, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: joeski ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeski Posted January 15, 2003 Author Share Posted January 15, 2003 any help? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty 101 Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 IIRC the turn speed of slower vehicals was reduced in the patch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggDogg Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Joe, You beat me to the punch by posting regarding this subject. I find turning tracked vehicles to do so exceedingly slowly. I freely admit that have no historical or grog basis in order to make this judgment, but it just seems that this situation is inaccurate and unhistoric. What we need here is a grog expose' on this subject. :eek: I see that JasonC is back after a long absence. Possibly, he is lurking in the shadows of the internet waiting to pounce upon this subject. Also, I have no solution to speeding up track vehicle turning except maybe having the AFVs' crews grease their vehicles' boogie wheels. Cheers, Richard 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeski Posted January 15, 2003 Author Share Posted January 15, 2003 Thanks guys. Doesn't look there's much interest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikser Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 What we need is a 'can neutral steer' ability for those tanks that historically could do it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Turning speed was reduced, yes, because for most tanks it meant moving forward and backward while doing so (i.e. lack of neutral steering, therefore the ability to turn in place), and indeed took a fairly long time to accomplish. AFAIK you can improve this a little by giving a short movement order to the tank in question - tanks turn faster while on the move. Martin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeski Posted January 15, 2003 Author Share Posted January 15, 2003 ok you lost me with neutral steer. I'm not a grog, and I don't work with cattle. I'm assuming you mean right track reversing, left track forward to make a right hand turn? I thought all tanks could do that. But that doesn't seem to be the case. Thanks for the info. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PvtTom Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Why could tanks not neutral steer? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Are all CMBB tanks like this? Do some have "netural steer" modelled? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaveyyyyyyyy Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Well I see we've moved this one! Not all tracked vehicles can do it. I dunno how many WW2 AFVs could, I do remember being told not to do it on a road (I have driven the odd AFV) as it would simply tear the top off the tarmac while you were doing it. Trouble is I can't remember what I was driving at the time..! I think it depends simply on the powertrain. If each side is totally separate gearbox-wise, then you can. Otherwise, if you have one main gearbox selecting speeds and some other way of reduction operated by the sticks. The Italian ones just reverse whatever you do with the sticks... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Originally posted by PvtTom: Why could tanks not neutral steer?By not having a Merrit-Brown (or similar) epicyclic regenerative gearing system. The most basic form of tank steering is the braked differential. In this, the tracks on each side can be braked separately, but high power dissipation makes it a very inefficient system. It was used on British carriers (which also used track-warping), but not much elsewhere. Clutch-and-brake systems enable one track to be disengaged, so that the whole propulsive power is being applied (slowed by a brake if necessary) to drive the outer track in a turn. Such systems were used on the KV series, T-34, Pz III and IV. Geared steering systems offer more options that the simple power on/off options to each track in clutch-and-brake or braked differential systems. Different gears can be applied to each track, so driving them at different speeds. The Cletrac geared differential system used on US light and medium tanks offered only one turning radius; the French devised more advanced systems offering an infinite number of turn radii on the Char B and S-35. The Merrit-Brown system (and the Merrit-Maybach it was based on) uses the Wilson epicyclic gearbox, and can apply any forward or reverse gear to either track with minimal power dissipation. This is the only kind of system that permits one track to be driven forward while the other is driven back, so achieving a neutral or pivot turn. It was used in all British tanks from the Churchill onwards, and in the German Tiger. All the best, John. [ January 15, 2003, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: John D Salt ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Turn speed for the rotate command was reduced from CMBO -> CMBB 1.0. The result was that turn for movement was faster than the rotate command so in the 1.01 patch the turn speed for movement while moving slow was also removed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutral Party Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 In game terms armor turning can be speeded up. Say your vehicle is stopped and you want to turn through 90 degrees. It's faster if you start moving directly forward or reverse (i.e., 0 or 180 degrees) and then steer (forward or reverse) through a series of short straight-line tangents to the turning arc till you're pointing in the desired direction. Joe 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikser Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Originally posted by John D Salt: ...It was used in all British tanks from the Churchill onwards, and in the German Tiger. As I've understood it, the Panther and Tiger II (or anything using their chassis) could also neutral steer due to the gearing. [ January 16, 2003, 04:07 AM: Message edited by: Mikser ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Neutral steer is different from pivot steer. As John noted, neutral steer involves both tracks turning in opposite directions. This allows the tank to turn without any forward or reverse movement. The pivot steer uses the brakes, of whatever kind, to hold one track motionless while the other drives the tank through the turn or pivots it around the motionless track. I am not sure how common this ability was in WWII tanks but I would guess that it was much more so than the ability to perform a neutral steer. The use of the pivot turn would allow much faster turns while stationary than are currently seen in the game but the tank will shift its position some. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Originally posted by Sgtgoody: Neutral steer is different from pivot steer. I follow the usage of R M Ogorkiewicz, who uses them as apparent equivalents in his "Armour", Stevens & Sons, London, 1960 (published in the USA as "Armored forces"). Originally posted by Sgtgoody: [snips]The pivot steer uses the brakes, of whatever kind, to hold one track motionless while the other drives the tank through the turn or pivots it around the motionless track. I am not sure how common this ability was in WWII tanks but I would guess that it was much more so than the ability to perform a neutral steer. What you have described there is what I would call a skid turn. I imagine that all tracked vehicles must be capable of it. All the best, John. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Originally posted by Mikser: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John D Salt: ...It was used in all British tanks from the Churchill onwards, and in the German Tiger. As I've understood it, the Panther and Tiger II (or anything using their chassis) could also neutral steer due to the gearing.</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Good point, just a question of semantics. This is the terminology I worked with when I was in. Doesn't make any difference really. I think you are right about the ability to skid/pivot turn. Does anyone know any definite figures on this? James 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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