CMBB - 1st impressions and some questions

[Evzone]

Some of you will recall my post from a week back, 'how does AK compare to BB'? Well, I received the game in the post yesterday and I think it's excellent. My first taste of Russian armor was pretty exhilirating to say the least and I find the infantry to be a lot bolder than they are in CMAK. I wonder if this is truly the case, if anyone would like to comment.

I have been trying to get my head around some of the infantry types and their various capabilities and the roles they are most suitable in. I usually look at the squads' rifle-mg ratio and the support, if any is attached, to make the most basic distinction between attacking and defending platoons/companies. Would someone care to fill me in on the various infantry types of, say, the Soviet forces?

Re the terrain, I'm under the impression that hilly terrain is better depicted than it is in CMAK. Also, at least during my first few battles I found it very easy to find hull-down postions. But is there a particular location and date anyone has singled out and would like to recommend, as Finland/North/Central/South is still a little vague to me despite the bit of hopping around that I've done.

Also, I'm experiencing a problem with 'steppe' terrain: I can't differentiate it from 'open ground' when the height's above 2. Might this be a common problem?

The game's still very new to me, too new I would say as I'm trying to find my bearings. I don't think I have had anything close to the thrills CMBB can potentially deliver so if someone could help me out with the above, that would be great. All comments would be appreciated.

And once again, since I'm posting, I'd like to make an open invitation for a small QB, for my first CMBB battle against a human opponent.

Corvidae and I started fighting it out ("Evzone V. Corvidae Aug.41'" in the AK forum) but he will be unavailable for a few days and I'm itching to play.

Thanks guys,

Evzone

[tankibanki]

You've got mail.

Regarding the infantry types, there will be guys along shortly who can tell you everything you'll need to know.

The most unique unit on the Russian side is probably the SMG infantry, but you could also look up the ski troop thread for another specialized infantry type.

I don't think steppe and open ground differ in anything but name, but I might be mistaken.

[Evzone]

thanks, tankibanki.

Upon closer inspection the steppe appears to have long blades of grass or some kind of tall flora. I suspect it provides concealment...

[Mike Summers]

Play the Soviets long enough and you'll come to love the SMG squads, particularly close in with the enemy. Play against the Soviets long enough, and you'll find what a horror it is to stumble upon a SMG platoon waiting in ambush. <shudders>

[JasonC]

If you get a decent grass mod, steppe appears much browner than open. Steppe gives modest concealment, enough that infantry won't be spotted quite as far away, and a "and hide" order at the end of a move will make the other guy lose track of them out to 400m or so. When shot at, though, it is a type of open ground and the men will seek better cover etc much as they do when hit in the open.

Russians have two main, distinct parts of the force structure - mechanized and rifle. You switch those by changing the parent unit type. There are also lesser types - ski, cavalry, marine, airborne, partisan. I'll first address the subtypes within the main mech and rifle forces.

Mech forces were motorized and equipped with large numbers of tanks. Usually you'd have the "armor" force type when attacking with them, occasionally "combined arms". Their accompanying infantry has 4 different types with different roles.

First there are "tommy gunners" - SMG platoons in CM terms. They rode on the decks of the tanks and were used for close assaults, and to scout for the armor. The idea was the tanks dealt with enemies at long range, they handled the close in work and heavier terrain. They fought very light, no heavy weapons to speak of.

In CM you have a platoon HQ with 4 SMGs, and 3 small 7 man squads all with SMGs, making 25 men total per platoon. The firepower is enourmous at close range, but ammo is limited and they have to hold their fire until you get close. You can get small scout groups of 3 SMGs if you split the regular squads. A tank hunter team (2 SMGs and usually AT grenades) is a frequent attachment, riding with the HQ. To fight properly, these want T-34s.

Next there is the motor rifle. These were the standard infantry of the mech formations. They rode in trucks and dismounted to actually fight. They also used the typical mix of Russian heavy weapons - which means 82mm mortars, Maxim MGs, and ATRs. They held stuff the tanks took, mostly, and acted as the mech arm's conventional infantry force.

In CM these are smallish platoons of HQ and 3 8 man squads, each with a DP LMG, SMG, mostly rifles. The platoons typically come with an ATR as well. Some types have 4 squads and no ATR, depending on the date. Somewhat light in firepower because of the small squad size. They fight from medium range, closing only once someone is thoroughly pinned. Their better range is also meant to make them more capable on defense and to cover open ground areas etc.

To fight properly, the motor rifle guys expect to have their heavy weapons attached. That means 2-3 82mm mortars per company, 2-4 Maxim MGs, an occasional sniper, and sometimes a few towed 76mm guns, ZIS-3 model. (I like universal carrier tow vehicles for those, though a single jeep will do in a pinch). They would also frequently have FO fire support in the 76mm or 120mm caliber. In CM I find the 120mm works best.

The third infantry type in the mech forces are the Recon C type. These were actually motorcycle mounted infantry and they formed thin screens, conducted patrols, and the like.

They are quite lightly armed, pretty much just rifles (1 SMG and 1 semi-auto rifle per squad). They have high ammo and decent range (250m or so), but little infantry firepower. Reasonable weapon suppliments are a few DP LMGs, ATRs, snipers, and a pair of 50mm mortars sometimes. They want everything to have medium speed or better and long range, because they don't intend to close.

You can simulate the cycles with jeeps, pretty well. They would also have BA series armored cars or work with T-70 light tanks occasionally.

They are so light they aren't very effective in CM. Their one long suit is high ammo.

The last mech type are the pioneers (combat engineers in American terms). They have a similarly light individual weapons load-out to the previous, but they also have demolition charges and the ability to clear mines. DCs are very limited range - 30m - weapons, but powerful blast.

They will kill tanks if you get close enough to throw them, and are also useful against buildings or in woods when LOS is short enough. They would occasionally have flamethrowers and might work with platoons of tommy gunners as well. In the mech force, though, one of their main jobs is clearly routes through minefields for the tanks, which they can do for a spotted field if they have DCs remaining and sit still for a minute or so about 20-25m from the minefield.

Next there are the rifle infantry types. There are a few specialty types - recon, SMG, pioneer - and the line. Recon A is an elite type and very strong in CM, with 1 LMG and 3 SMGs per squad and large squads. They are "pathfinders" during assaults and night infiltrators and intel gatherers etc. Historically the best of the rifle force, but modest numbers.

SMG come in whole companies now and use larger 9 man squads. These are "shock" companies, special assault details. For city fighting or in woods, the meanest infantry going. Pioneers are similar to the ones with mech, the main difference being since rifle tends to have less anti tank ability their DCs are in higher demand for that role. They were also used a bit more in attacks, in several quite small groups.

You have the option to take as few as HQ and 2 squads for those. A typical use it to put 2 DC equipped squads 50m or so apart with the HQ in the middle, making a ~100m wide area in which thrown DCs can stop tanks etc. The company of 2 platoons is also a useful and affordable form of them. Use the company HQ as a third platoon, making 3 such groups.

Then comes the line infantry. It is the plain vanilla infantry that provides the bulk of the force. It expects to use heavy weapons - pairs of 50mm mortars or single 82mm mortars, single or paired Maxim MGs, a web of ATRs, FOs, snipers. Their main AT defense typically comes from towed guns. The exact types vary with the date.

In 1941 you get big squads, 2 SMGs per squad and typically 3-4 DP LMGs per platoon. Long on bodies, they take fire well but aren't standouts at anything.

In 1942 the infantry declines to small 9 man squads with single DP and single SMG each. These are much weaker. The B types - the B stands for independent rifle (B)rigades - as opposed to the rifle divisions - keep large squads and more SMGs, and are more capable.

1943 they go through 2 transitions, first to a 4 squad pattern with 6 DP LMGs per platoon - 2 squads with 1 each and 2 with 2 each - until the fall, when they move to 1 LMG and 3 SMGs per squad, like Recon A. The latter is the late 1943 type and sticks around into 1944, and I find it the most powerful all around type.

The earlier DP heavy platoons are OK, but the 2 LMG squads have limited ammo (32 vs 47). Use the higher ammo ones for longer range fire while the heavy ones stay on shorter arcs.

Late in the war some of the mech guys get a pretty useless type with DP LMG plus SMGs. They give up ammo to feed the LMG, which isn't strong enough to actually make it worthwhile to fire at range. Avoid them, pure SMG squads are much more useful.

Last a brief overview of the other types. Partisans are like 1941 infantry but even shorter on LMGs. No special or redeeming features. Early cavalry is lightly armed, marginally better than Recon C perhaps, and use small 2 squad formations, giving lots of HQs. This helps them spread in steppe and such, but leaves them underpowered for the cost. Later (1943 plus) they start using 4 SMGs per squad and get much more powerful, particularly in wooded terrain.

Airborne are magnificantly equipped with numerous semi-auto rifles, but are short on SMGs. This gives them good firepower at medium range. Historically most of the airborne fought as ground infantry, used as reserves in important sectors etc. They were higher quality as picked men with more intense training etc. Their few combat drops were pretty unsuccessful, though. They did pull off a number of small commando size raids.

Marines were similarly specialized and gave a good account of themselves in fighting in Odessa, Sevastapol, and the Kuban in southern Russia. Not many of them, most organized in independent brigades or smaller formations.

Ski were independent brigades used in the winter months or the far north, primarily valued for their off road mobility in trackless forests. They get a mix of rifle armed Recon C -ish infantry and tommy gunners. The former are meant to find and fix and the latter to flank and assault. It is basically a light infantry type, and for weapons would have 50mm mortars and the like. Brigades did have some 82mms but used them mostly indirect - as an 82mm FO in CM terms.

There are also Guards versions of many of the above. Usually they are the same, sometimes marginally better equipped or using a type that hasn't made one of the above transitions. They would also tend to be higher quality.

As a note on quality, due to losses the average Russian formation was green for much of the war. Exceptions that would typically be regulars include - most of the mech, recon A and SMG in the rifle forces, airborne marine and ski, and guards. Tommy gunners in the mech, recon A in the rifle, and all of the airborne, are the most likely to find as veterans, along with some portion of the guards formations. Snipers were also uniformly of high quality, whatever service.

I hope this helps.

[Evzone]

Thank you so very much for the info, JasonC. Your post is getting printed out and will serve as an invaluable reference.

Evzone

[John Kettler]

Evzone,

Glad you're enjoying your game!

JasonC,

Your depth and breadth of knowledge of the Red Army continues to astound me! How many volumes on this topic do you own, please?

Regards,

John Kettler

[DREVAK]

Dunno about real life, but in BB, Soviet Airborne guys get a four-squad platoon of 12-men squads with 11 SMGs and a LMG if I remember correctly. Or was it 11 guys and 10 SMGs? Can't remember now. As for the place/date when and where they become available, beats me, dunno.

Best firepower I've ever seen. Low ammo though.

[The_Enigma]

Nice infor there Jason on the Ruskie infantry

When ive played CMBB i usally play Germans however recently ive had quite a bit of exp as the Russians.

Its mentioned breifly above but well here it is,

If you can (i know this is a bit of an obiously point) pin the enemy with your rifle men and then assualt with your SMG'ers if you have any ... although attempting this with just SMG'ers does tend to fail

But when you pull it off it gives you the sight of dead germans or alot of routing and soon to be dead germans

Just a few lil hints:

57mm AT Guns for the Ruskies can be just as good as the 76mm ATG.

Early war Russian tanks suffer terribly from delays due to poor commuications. Means it can be hell to try and pull of a decent co-ordinated attack. However they do compenstate with fast speed (the Bt tanks) and preety decent rate of fire.

[JT Fox]

Originally posted by John Kettler:

Evzone,

Glad you're enjoying your game!

JasonC,

Your depth and breadth of knowledge of the Red Army continues to astound me! How many volumes on this topic do you own, please?

Regards,

John Kettler

List the ones you don't own to save space.