jon_j_rambo Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 How come the majority of the 'please fix the game threads' are always about some Russian tank, Finland needs this, the map is inaccurate, or the Nazis deserve this? Well, I'm here to say, it's time the United States of America is represented correctly. 1) Add about 10 more naval ships or more, we had cruisers, destroyers, & escorts out the ass. I'm sick of floating G.I.s across the Atlantic in rubber boats without cover. My Uncle fought for the good guys on a Destroyer, SC is teaching bad history to the young people, by shrinking the U.S. Navy. 2) Get some real supply for North Africa. It's terrible that the USA can't even consider a ground war in North Africa. Give me Patton rolling the Gerries in the sand,"I read your book!" We brought so many supplies across the Atlantic, it was ridiculous. 3) Where are the paratroops? 82nd, 101st, Easy Company. They captured bridges, cutoff Germans, & held at Bastogne. Please add them for SC2. Give the Germans their Airborne too, for Crete. 4) US/UK are ripped off in anti-air tech, interception, radar, etc. The Germans got their assed kicked over the Channel. The Luftwaffe & Goering weren't so tough fighting somebody who was ready. Stuka, Me-109s, or whatever are tough against unarmed sleeping farmers. Axis didn't have a plane in the sky in 1944 in the West. 5) US should be given 3 or 4 bombers. Lets fire bomb Dresden like it deserved. 6) US needs some tanks, Patton drove all Africa, Sicily, France, & Germany. We didn't have the thickest armor, but we didn't move 15 mph either. I get tired hearing about one Tiger tank in a village was sooo tough. How about added 3 or 4 US tanks. 7) Finally, for now. Where's the cash? That's one thing we have here. Uncle Sam is loaded, Capitalism is King. "Run Mr. Taliban, we know we're your hiding. Air Force come, & bomb your home. Old Uncle Sam pissed, he ain't no Quaker. Air Firce come, & bomb your home. Pilot is brother of New York finest. Air Force come, & bomb your home." --- Sung to the tune of Harry Belafonte's "Day-O". Let SC-2 set things right --- Outlaw Josey Wales Hubert, lets get the G.I.s on the move! Jon J. Rambo Captain of Team USA Born in the USA - Bruce Born Again - John [ October 24, 2003, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Rambo tell um... Especially where is the cash - the MPP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Rambo, you are a sick puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korut Zelva Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 If you consider USA doesn't have enough unit or money Just assume it's spent in the Pacific theather But It's alright they don't start with tons of units. It's to simulate that they have to gear up before invading. They did stock MMP for like 2 years before D-day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Rambo is right. Not sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Agreed on SC2,US should start with more tech and more mpp's. In Sc how it is today it's easy to fix,just include US in the bid. Like 1:3:6 or 1:4:6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordy Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 The problem comes back to the fact that there is no way to simulate the US industries gearing up for war time production. If we could add some cities or ports at a value of 1 and let them ramp up to the Max over time that would work. But we can't. Sucks. As is, the US is a minor ally that can build units, HQ's and develop tech. Nothing more, nothing less. In most games the war is all but decided before the US even joins, let alone gets involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 If you want to show greater US war production without making every US hex a city hex then; 1> Increase the maximum value of US cities to 30 (instead of 10)but start them at 10. With this method you will see US production reach full production 20 turns (almost 1 year) after it enters the war. or 2> Give the US one level in Industrial tech every 6 months automatically or 3> Give the US one level in industrial tech every six months and allow the US to reach Industrial Tech Level 10 (a 50% reduction in the cost of each unit). PS: After Japan falls in 1946 the US should start receiving units via the Panama Canal. Thus providing the Allied player incentive to fight on if he has managed to survive until then. PSS: A successful Sea Lion should trigger a US Siberian transfer with ships coming from the from the Pacific Fleet. [ October 24, 2003, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwormwood Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Originally posted by jon_j_rambo: 5) Lets fire bomb Dresden like it deserved. What would happen if GOD would judge us the way you are judging other people? You are quoting so often the bible, but it seems, as if you never really understood the message. we all deserve nothing else from our own deeds but death (and yes, even the fire), it is only jesus who can save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Let's leave religion out of this. I totally disagree with Christianity too. The problem is Rambo & Curry's mentality. It is sick and pathological. Neither Curry or Rambo know this but this is the truth. As I type these letters on this screen right now, at this moment, the counterparts of these two are in Iraq plotting how to kill more American soldiers. The mentality is the same. Only the nationality differs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marklavar Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 5) US should be given 3 or 4 bombers. Lets fire bomb Dresden like it deserved. Let's also destroy the NY World Trade Centre like it deserved. ASSHOLE! Anyway it was the British who did most of the bombing of Dresden. [ October 24, 2003, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: marklavar ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Well I can see this post will soon be locked. Nice first post Marklavar. So many words about something that is unlikey to happen in the next 2 years. So little playing , why don't some of you go find a game and come back with some 'real' ideas. OK, even I'm falling down the slippery slope - time to run and hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Well, Since Bullwinkle has included me with Rambo I will respond. 1) Bullwinkle - your name seems to fit you. The cartoon that is. What is your point. Instead of just spitting out give some details please? How are Rambo and myself sick and pathological? 2) I didn’t agree with everything Rambo was saying but with his main point. The US is not represented Accurately. I didn’t even see what he said about the Dresden bombing until now. His main point is correct. The US is not represented even close to its historical representation. Germany would not have been defeated without the US. That I believe is a TRUTH! 3) Xwormwood, Good post and I agree with you. 4) Rambo goes overboard. Its just Rambo, if you have been around here for any length of time you would know that. I don’t need to defend Rambo. He doesn’t need defending. We are all different characters. 5) On the bombing of Dresden itself. A. Whoever said it was the Brit's I believe they are correct. In fact the strategy between the Brit's and the American's greatly differed when it came to bombing. The Brit's under Sir Arthur "Bomber" Thomas were just into totally bombing the German cities and thought that would bring the Germans to their knees. The American's were into precision bombing and went after specific targets.(for that day anyway, for our day it was a joke what they called precision). B. As to what Rambo said about Dresden "deserving". Well I don’t want to go there but I think if I had to defend that I would be able to. Germany deserved what she received from the allies and the soviets in the destruction she received. Germany started the war, she was ruthless to other nations she conquered, 20 MILLION soviets died, the HOLOCOST, When the Czech resistence killed one SS/Nazi leader the German's kiiled a whole town of 5,000 Czech's in return. ECT..Ect... Ect... I could give example after example. I am sorry to offend any present days Germans. I really love Germany, spent two years of my life there and have visit several times after that. I am of German heritage. Have good friends there. I am just glad that is all over and I did not have to live through that. 6) Marklavar, dont go there about 9/11. Not a fair analolgy by any stretch. [ October 24, 2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Curry ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 "...Germany deserved what she received .." Curry I don't believe you want to get into collective guilt. The average German, like the average Russian, Brit, Frenchman, Italian, Pole, American ... etc.. has nothing at all to do with his country's actions. Anyone who believes otherwise is not based in reality. I had many close frieds who either died, went nuts or were crippled in Nam and I doubt any of them had any clear idea of what we were doing in South East Asia, nor did they effect by one iota whether or not the United States was going to be fighting there or anywhere else. Nobody in a country deserves anything, except the leaders who moved things in the directions events took. And that includes the Allied leaders, Diplomacy from the Versailles Treaty to the invasion of Poland was like Ali Babba and the Forty Thieves with every country trying to grab something at someone else's expense, inlcuding the United States, Britain and France. There are no true innocent leading parties in any wartime situation, which doesn't mean some poor slob working in a factory deserves to be cremated along with his family, friends and neighbors. And yes, Bullwinkle has been in the Forum a long time -- so he's read postings and has contributed for over a year so he is not a new comer. There are points and counter points on both sides, but I think they could be made without the personal slights that all parties are starting to meander into. You've all got something to say and we'd like to hear it, only without any insults. [ October 24, 2003, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well-dressed gentleman Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Relax Marklavar – it’s history. Few people get what they deserve, except in Heaven, Hell, or the movies. I’ll add that U.S. troops deserve a better soft attack since they had the most hunters and backwoodsmen. They also had the best rifle and machinegun of the war, the M1 Garand and the M2 fifty caliber. I hope the sequel to SC has a better soundtrack. Maybe the United States could play Benny Goodman, the Germans could play Wagner, the Italians could play Rossini, the French could play ‘Le Boudin’, and the Soviets could play on their triangular guitars. The Brits could play that Chumbawamba tune ‘Tubthumping’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted October 25, 2003 Author Share Posted October 25, 2003 Here's what I don't understand. The majority on this Forum defend every countries actions in WW2, except the United States. Oh, the Germans had this, the Russians had that, the T-34 this, the German General that...whatever. The purpose of my post was to put the United States on the map. We fought hard to help save people from tyranny & oppression (Nazis). The historical inaccuracies need to be addressed in the game. It upsets me when I get 5-Armies, 2-Ships, & 1-Fighter. My country deserves correct representations. I want historical accuracy for the United States, please add the bombers. marklavar --- The United States was attacked at Pearl Harbor, New York City, & was brought into WW2 (directly & indirectly, however you want to define it). I'm not going to address you directly on this issue, out of respect of the rules, Hubert, Madmatt, & Moon. I want the United States given more ships, planes, men, & technology. "Let is go Rambo, that mission is over" --- Col. Troutman in the movie First Blood. xwormwood --- I will address your question. If "He" judged me, it would be the perfect judgement. I have no choice then & accept my fate. Actually, my acceptance, is insignificant. You are right! Or "He" is right. Thanks for the post! Bullwinkle --- Dude, you haven't posted for 6-months...then I speak & you post...Hmmm...I'll send you the Rambo Fan Club T-Shirt. Hugs & Kisses In conclusion, SC needs to give the United States more MEN, TANKS, PLANES, MONEY, & BOMBERS to do the job. "God died to make men Holy, let live to make men Free, His Truth is marching on" --- Battle Hymn of the Republic. Rambo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1 Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 This thread has wandered and after a couple of posts was worth being ignored, but Rambo's opening posts comments were good. "How come the majority of the 'please fix the game threads' are always about some Russian tank, Finland needs this, the map is inaccurate, or the Nazis deserve this? Well, I'm here to say, it's time the United States of America is represented correctly. 1) Add about 10 more naval ships or more, we had cruisers, destroyers, & escorts out the ass. I'm sick of floating G.I.s across the Atlantic in rubber boats without cover. My Uncle fought for the good guys on a Destroyer, SC is teaching bad history to the young people, by shrinking the U.S. Navy. 2) Get some real supply for North Africa. It's terrible that the USA can't even consider a ground war in North Africa. Give me Patton rolling the Gerries in the sand,"I read your book!" We brought so many supplies across the Atlantic, it was ridiculous. 3) Where are the paratroops? 82nd, 101st, Easy Company. They captured bridges, cutoff Germans, & held at Bastogne. Please add them for SC2. Give the Germans their Airborne too, for Crete. 4) US/UK are ripped off in anti-air tech, interception, radar, etc. The Germans got their assed kicked over the Channel. The Luftwaffe & Goering weren't so tough fighting somebody who was ready. Stuka, Me-109s, or whatever are tough against unarmed sleeping farmers. Axis didn't have a plane in the sky in 1944 in the West. 6) US needs some tanks, Patton drove all Africa, Sicily, France, & Germany. We didn't have the thickest armor, but we didn't move 15 mph either. I get tired hearing about one Tiger tank in a village was sooo tough. How about added 3 or 4 US tanks. 7) Finally, for now. Where's the cash? That's one thing we have here. Uncle Sam is loaded, Capitalism is King." (please note, I edited out one comment that I didn't think had any merit) I think SC would possibly want to try to simulate his notions in some manner, his points are valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted October 25, 2003 Author Share Posted October 25, 2003 Well-Dressed-Gent --- Hello my friend! Hello from Boise, Idaho, USA. How are things in your part of the country? Fall has set in, "all the leaves are brown", & it's football season. I haven't talked to you in awhile, so thanks for posting. I need to upgrade my computer, then we can play (after we find), a nice Squad Leader type game. I'm in the Sport's Bar, drinking some American brew...Coor's, gambling some sports, & thank goodness I bailed on the stock market last week. Well-Dressed, so where is are next reunion? Vegas, The Great Lakes, Florida, or the nursing home? Friends from the beginning, Rambo >>> When Legend speaks, people listen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 "..."3) Where are the paratroops? 82nd, 101st, Easy Company. They captured bridges, cutoff Germans, & held at Bastogne" Les They're represented as part of larger units, just as Bastogne is represented as part of Low Countries -- you'll note that the nations of Belgium, Holland and Luxemburg are themselves not represented as such! Or, put another way, maybe we should have Easy Company if we also had Bastogne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Jersey, as I said when I posted. I dont want to go there, but felt forced to go there. I agree and disagree with you. The average German (of that day) does not bear that guilt. However, the average German does bear that guilt in that he is a member of that nation or culture. Too long of a debate for this forum and its not intended for this SC space. But I do also agree with your post on how we have made this personal. I hope those who I have made it personal with will forgive. The heat of the moment over took me. But bottom line, I still strongly agree with Rambo, the USA is not represented even close to histoical. But then that is why I DO NOT THINK SC is a historical game. Its just based on some history. [ October 24, 2003, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Curry ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 ??? - I'm not sure why I'm addressed in any of this but OK - so my dry midwestern sense of humor was not taken in account (read sarcausem). the USA is not represented even close to histoical. But then that is why I DO NOT THINK SC is a historical game. Its just based on some history. True so true - but I do not think we would see eye to eye on the details. The US ground forces start WAY too strong - its navy is WAY too weak. The MMPs start is too high but by late 42 - early 43 they are too low. Tech too low - give them 5 chits and a 0 in IT. Bottom line is (as started above?) - By the time the USA enters, the game is normally decided (normally is decided in France or the first 6 turns to be honest). I have seen and continue to see the USA as VERY rich IF the allies (UK) sucessfull pull off the Delay - delay - delay stratigy iee They still have units in egypt/syeria when Germany invades Russia. In these games the USA has time to build and quite offen has so many MPPs she's not sure where to put them (hard to beleave but true) - of course the date is late 43 when this happens and Russia is starting to become a true super power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted October 25, 2003 Author Share Posted October 25, 2003 Bullwinkle --- I re-read your comments. All I can say is this, I support our troops. I don't care who is in office, Republican, Democrat, or Independent...I support our troops. "Four more years, four more years" --- 1984 chant for Ronald Reagan. And my chant for George W. Bush. Rambo >>> Supports our troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Les the Sarge - good point. I'm not backing off Rambo's main point. The USA is not represented correctly in this game. I believe Shaka, who is much more into historical accuracy than I, reserached it and told me that the game has all the US MPP/lend lease already going to the UK and USSR. That reality would have the USSR with less MPP which for game play just would not do. Shaka perhaps can post that information here again if he would, if I am correct that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Iron, sorry, I meant to address Jersey and have edited it. Apologies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Curry Agreed and I know you never meant to go there and you aren't the sort of person who sees slaughter as an answer to anything. Didn't mean to have it sound as though I was singling you out; I wasn't and am sorry it came off that way. Also agreed that we can't debate any of this here, but it's very relevant to the world today. If citizens are held directly responsible for their country's actions, then what happened two years ago across the harbor from my living room can be justified -- and as far as I'm concerned, it can't be. I know we don't want to enter a dialogue on this, especially not here, but I have a feeling our basic views are similar in this regard. Regarding the USA issue, it's been hashed and rehashed. I agree that it doesn't represent the true USA potential, unless the Pacific War is factored in. What it represents is what the United States was able to logistically support on the other side of the Atlantic during the early forties, which is gargantuan as represented in SC. No other country on earth could have supported several armies and air fleets with an intervening ocean. Unfortunately, that logistical factor is what isn't represented in the game. [ October 24, 2003, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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