A question on difficulty options...

[anoldman]

Two questions:

1. I enjoy Fog of War for my side as I enjoy the realism of not having a God's eye view, but I have heard that selecting this option hinder's the AI? Can someone confirm or deny this?

2. What is the difference between the two difficulty options? I understand the XP bonus side due to SuperTed's helpful attack/defend equation, however what about the Difficulty 50%/100% side? What does this represent?

Do either of the settings actually make the AI better or more responsive or does it just strengthen the overall 'power' of the other side's units (Str 11 units to start instead of Str 10 for example)?

Thanks in advance,

--An Old Man

[ July 24, 2002, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: An Old Man ]

[Lars]

Don't know about the Fog of War, but the difficulty level sets the amount of MPP's you get for sacking countries I believe.

[blackbellamy]

It doesn't actually hinder the AI directly as part of the setting, but it _does_ make the AI use Fog of War, so yes, the AI does have a harder time playing because it doesn't know where your forces are.

[Straha]

Originally posted by blackbellamy:

It doesn't actually hinder the AI directly as part of the setting, but it _does_ make the AI use Fog of War, so yes, the AI does have a harder time playing because it doesn't know where your forces are.

And let me add that this is how it *should* be.

Straha

[gorski]

It might be nice to be able to turn fow on for the human and off for the AI.

Gorski

[Straha]

Originally posted by gorski:

It might be nice to be able to turn fow on for the human and off for the AI.

Gorski

Hmm, this amounts to the option of setting FOW on/off seperately for both sides so that we have four settings. Would be nice, indeed! Choosing an asymmetrical setting could be interesting in case of an experienced player vs. beginner.

Straha

[SuperTed]

Originally posted by An Old Man:

2. What is the difference between the two difficulty options? I understand the XP bonus side due to SuperTed's helpful attack/defend equation, however what about the Difficulty 50%/100% side? What does this represent?

Do either of the settings actually make the AI better or more responsive or does it just strengthen the overall 'power' of the other side's units (Str 11 units to start instead of Str 10 for example)?

Thanks in advance,

--An Old Man

AOM,

The difficulty setting affects how many MPPs are collected via plundering. Also, it has an effect on Free French chances, Siberian Army transfer chances, and a few other goodies.

The experience setting is straightforward. It adds 1 or 2 experience points to each enemy unit.

[Randell Daigre]

Dammit! Disregard.

[Aloid]

Originally posted by Straha:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gorski:

It might be nice to be able to turn fow on for the human and off for the AI.

Gorski

Hmm, this amounts to the option of setting FOW on/off seperately for both sides so that we have four settings. Would be nice, indeed! Choosing an asymmetrical setting could be interesting in case of an experienced player vs. beginner.

Straha</font>

[anoldman]

Hmm, I really like the idea of fog of war for me and no fog of war for the AI.

Seems like a way to increase the AI without just giving it more units or strength.

As a wargaming newb, I personally think the AI is pretty good but *shrug* what do I know. The game is fun and challenging for me even without giving Xp bonus or Difficulty bonus at he options menu.

I would really like to see a Fog of War for me, and not for the AI, if Hubert is considering any patches or even a Strategic Command 2...

[Straha]

Originally posted by An Old Man:

SNIP

I would really like to see a Fog of War for me, and not for the AI, if Hubert is considering any patches or even a Strategic Command 2...

But this should by all means be an additional option, and not *replace* how it is handled now.

Straha

[Genghis]

Will changing the difficulty setting actually make the Allies and/or Axis more agressive/passive in terms of declaring war on neutrals?

I never saw the Axis AI invade Norway or Greece so I was just wondering if I increase the AI difficulty setting will the computer be more prone to doing more risky things?

[JerseyJohn]

Genghis

Good observation. From what I've seen the AI doesn't play the Axis very well. Generally AIs do a better job reacting than initiating. I may be wrong, but that's my feeling from playing over the years.

In Clash of Steel I believe the fog of war method described earlier, where the computer sees everything and the human sees only his own and what's nearby, was exactly the method used. If the human left a harbor open the computer was always on it right away trying to sneak in, a hundred to one hunch and it would have been correct every single time! So, of course, it saw where everyting was.

Unfortunatly in COS many of the play functions were weighted in the computer's favor to compensate for it's weak decision making ability. I always had the feeling that the AI in that game routinely took whatever it wasn't already given and did what the less polite would call cheating. And they say machines don't have egos -- bah!

[ January 10, 2003, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[Genghis]

JerseyJohn

Aye it's funny to see the Low Countries not get attacked until 1941 by an Axis AI long after France falls. Or even see a neutral Denmark survive the entire war

I'm not sure what the chances are in SC for the Axis AI to declare war but Italy should have at least a 50% of declaring war on Greece in 1940 (after declaring war after France falls) while Germany should have a 50% of declaring war on Norway.

To add incentive to conquering Norway...maybe give the Germans added bonuses for UBoat "disrupting convoy raids" if Norway is conquered

[JerseyJohn]

Genghis

Agreed -- I've reached the conclusion the AI should always be the Allies.

Great ideas as always, especially the one about U-boat incentives. Norway certainly had strategic importance beyond it's economic value.

[ January 11, 2003, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

Originally posted by Aloid:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Straha:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gorski:

It might be nice to be able to turn fow on for the human and off for the AI.

Gorski

Hmm, this amounts to the option of setting FOW on/off seperately for both sides so that we have four settings. Would be nice, indeed! Choosing an asymmetrical setting could be interesting in case of an experienced player vs. beginner.

Straha</font>

[Genghis]

CvM - heh you do know that this is an old post I just regurgitated and Aloid posted his reply back in July 2002

[J P Wagner]

Originally posted by gorski:

It might be nice to be able to turn fow on for the human and off for the AI.

Gorski

I've been toying around with this idea. Try playing a game with the following conditions:

-In options, click on "Allow rule/political changes to be made...."

-If you are playing Axis, have fow on at the start of your turn.

-After completing your turn, cover the map section with a piece of cardboard, then click options and disable fow.

-Keep the map covered and just listen to the allies action. Don't view any of the AI move

-When you hear the turn is over, go back into options and reactivate fow..now, remove the cardboard and survey what has been done...it makes it interesting, especially in large battles, because you may now see some of your units missing as they were eliminated and their spotting abilities gone...you never see what actually attacked your forces.

-play your turn, cover the map, then once again turn fow off...repeat as necessary

You will also not see the Partisian activity announcement so be wary of that occurance once you view the screen again!

It makes for a different game, believe me!..

[ January 17, 2003, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: J P Wagner ]

[Hueristic]

Originally posted by J P Wagner:

I'm sure it does but then there is the fact that the A.I. may make different moves if it does not Take FOW inot account. I.E. it may put units into Sight for you that it ordinarilly would not. This is a Question That Hubert should give a clarification on.

[J P Wagner]

Good point, but perhaps if enough people try this, we may get a better sampling of how it plays out....and who knows, maybe simply playing the game with fow on all the times, but you do not watch the AI moves may make for a better challenge...don't really know about that one though...need to give it a whirl.

[ January 17, 2003, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: J P Wagner ]

[Konstantin V. Kotelnikov]

I had noticed that the AI tends to build more air units with FOW on as it needs them to spot.

Without it on I have seen the Axis never build another air unit other than the 3 it starts with.

Silly computer.

[JerseyJohn]

Since Old Man's suggestion I've been playing against the AI with fog of war off and the games are much better. The human gains little as the computer playes a fairly predictable game in any case, but with the fog off it does a better job blocking the human's offensives and conducting naval interdictions. A good suggestion, thanks for making it.

[pzgndr]

I'll have to try a few games with FOW off. One problem with the AI's limitations is that you generally have to play with higher game settings to get a challenging game.

Something to be considered for SC2 would be different levels of FOW for just the AI, or perhaps for everyone. Like full FOW off/on, provide naval units at sea FOW on/off, limited air/ground unit information FOW on/off, and stuff like that. Obviously the AI responds to the amount of information available it. Being able to tweak that parameter, which should be fairly easy to do, should help.

[JerseyJohn]

Perhaps have three Fog of War settings instead of two On -- Off -- Human Only automating the idea stated above by CvM and others.

I've found that on expert level the computer does play a much better game. Not as good as most humans, but improved enough to serve as a sparring partner. The main difference between computer strategy and human strategy, that I've observed with fog off, is the computer buys more HQs and corps. It likes to pad itself against attacks rather than initiating them.

[ January 19, 2003, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]