Twiddle Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 How does a player who did not host a game prove that a player has been cheating with either mmp income or edited units at the start. I guess the mistake was mine since I did not look at the report on the first turn. When I finally did notice a few too many units, I made a comment about purchases and named what he had bought. The report clearly showed six air units at the beginning of the French Invasion on turn March 3, 1940, with an additional Hq. The number of units for the land forces and air can be tracked under the report listing. The next turn the player was up to seven units plus replaced a lost army and two more showed up in Italy. Something is fishy. I guess I have been very fortunate in the players I have encountered till now. Should you have problems with a player out there who says he can only host and the game looks fishy.....send me an email and we can compare notes. I have lost many games to all levels of players and have never been disappointed in the game. This game was different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaWolf_48 Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 What nucklehead thought that you woudn't notice more than one French Air unit? Who is he, I've got to know! I know, he must be french, they have no honor! [ March 11, 2003, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: SeaWolf_48 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiddle Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 I was the allies in the game with two air fleets near london, Hq and a carrier in port. The first german army into France died immediately. Then the skies were full of Axis air, I have never seen so many this early in all the games I have played. France had just been invaded, only three countries had been plundered and the axis navy had not been disbanded. I looked at the report and he had seven air and 16 land units under the Germans (Germany starts with 3 and 12) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 If you really feel that something is wrongsave the game (or rename the auto save). Play test the situation, ie can it be reproduced, maybe the extra land units are corps ect.. (cheap). And if it still a problem contact one of the tech support people and see if they can 'disect' the game. I have one game in my file thats 'fishy'but have decited to let it pass. Sometimes it can be pure luck (but not # of units, you have to buy those). Played one game where my oppoinet had L3 jets before the fall of france and watched two of my armor get destroyed by out of supply corps, but I was hosting and I simply was unlucky that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 This is terribly disturbing news if true. :mad: To protect the integrity of the game, perhaps some future version could provide a cipher code on the .sav files that permits only the game engine to properly save and open them. I don't know if it's possible to totally prevent dishonorable players from hacking into the .sav files, but it might be possible to prevent edited files from being properly saved and used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiddle Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 IronRanger, I agree with the luck part. I have had it (jets and range)and have seen it against me. I am not talking about luck in research but in the purchase ability of the Axis early in the game. It would be easy to host a game with an inflated German mmp at the start, similar to adding the bid to allies. Spend the mmp and only if the opponent looked immediately at the report and knew the number of starting German and Italian forces would they be aware of the additonal forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 cheaters in SC...Lordy get a life, isn't this a shame, to the game. Well, I guess in some arenas you've got Knights, Jesters, Kings and petty thieves...know what happened to thieves in midages? CHOP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitfireMarkX Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Do you know his name, if you still have autosave, get it up and you can rename it, then re-open it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiddle Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 I have saved the file, can not open it. An interesting point is that the date the file was created (fixed with bid) was 2/6/2003 and the date of the save was today 3/11/2003. The game I created to play with a bid of 140 before I was told that he could not join and had to host has a date of 3/11/2003, same as the save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 "And Twiddle says the man cheated." "So many terrible people out there, Hermann." [ March 11, 2003, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Twiddle, do the math. 1) German's start: 3-air 2) German's plunder: ~750 (Poland, Denmark, LC) 3) Salary ~140 ? 4) Salary * ~8 turns ? = ~1130 5) ~1130 + ~750 = ~2000 6) cost of HQ: ~460 (depends who) 7) cost of 4-air new = 1600 8) total spent ~2060 #5 = #7 But: 1) Repairs to any existing units? ~75/turn maybe? 2) Did you read the reports correct? Italy? e-mail me: jon_j_rambo@yahoo.com Rambo from Hollywood >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiddle Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 Jersey John, At no time did I state that some one was cheating. I asked in the first message how do you prove a person is cheating. A big difference. When I have the factual information on someone cheating then I will announce the findings, until then, I just will not play the person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Twiddle You've handled this thing very well. That wasn't the point of the photo and caption. These things come and go, don't be upset over it even if whoever it was did do what you say he might have done. Just don't play him again. Rambo's been trying to prove these things for a long time now. Some people cheat, most don't. If some humor can't be expressed then the larger game, that of having fun in this thing, is already lost. As for posting the results, do we really want to start that nonsense? If you guys want a competitive tournament that's fine, organize it properly and have officials. If some one is a proven cheater hash it out among yourselves and bar him from future competition or put him on probabtion or whatever action you guys want to take among yourselves. But it might just be the case that the rest of us don't want a big issue made out of these things. Don't reveal the guy, if he's a friend of mine I don't particularly want to know and I doubt most of the others do either. As I said at the start, you've handled this fine so far. [ March 11, 2003, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 For the record, thank you: I had alot of problems in e-mail. We know that is a joke, I don't play e-mail anymore. Not just because of the potential reload factor, but I can get into the flow of the game via e-mail. I've had 1-MAJOR problem in a 1-GAME & that was with combat results both in the air & on the ground. German fighters w/ HQ's against the French air. I take 6-hits on damage!!! I attack the Canadians sitting in the Rhine with my German Army with HQ, Canadians take no damaged & I get head-cracked for 3-points? Insane. I got absolutely raped in naval combat too. I've played plenty of games, that one was fixed. What did I do? I meet my problems face-to-face. I will bitch-slap somebody on or offline. But Jersey is right, why get upset? I can't control others, I'm rich, & good looking. Hollywood [ March 11, 2003, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 General Rambo Rich and Good Looking and a great player -- you've got it all! Also, I liked the way you handled your own incidents. You were outraged but in every case you confronted the person within the ladder Forums and gave him a chance to counter. In the end it always turned out okay. [ March 11, 2003, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I also want to keep my good-name up so I posted "Rambo lost to XXXXXXXXXX". Funny thing is, I think the person has repented of their sins; I'm the first to forgive. Also: That was pre-Terif days. I was #1 in the world months ago, now I'm 8th or something, but I'm still a bitch in battle. People aren't gunning for me anymore, I enjoy the spotlight, but like to have fun more. "A good name is worth more than rubies" -somewhere in the Bible Grace unto you, Hollywood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiddle Posted March 12, 2003 Author Share Posted March 12, 2003 True, people come and go. As I stated in the messages, this was the first time in many games anything like this has occured. The very vast majority of games, I played have been very enjoyable, win or lose. Whether the person edited the game much earlier, (based on the date of the creation which is before he joined ladder play) or I am just blowing smoke or I am venting steam does not matter, since I will continue to play the game with others. The game is enjoyable. Rambo, thanks for the math. I will play you all when I get back from my ski vaction in Vail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Twiddle You're a class guy. Have a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve C Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Originally posted by Twiddle: Jersey John, At no time did I state that some one was cheating. I asked in the first message how do you prove a person is cheating. A big difference. Twiddle - this is a bit silly. Lemme see, you bluntly title a thread "Cheating..." state that a guy fishily could only host, loaded up an old file and sicced way too many air units on you. What's your point then, if not "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck", etc. ? You can't have it both ways, either you had sufficient evidence to accuse your opponent of cheating or you didn't. If you didn't, better not to make the insinuation in the first place. Ya wanna know what the problem is ? It's that insipid nom de guerre of yours. No one thinks twice about trifling with a man named Twiddle. Try logging back in with a more bellicose handle, such as Dark Lord of Panzer Doom and you will be given the full measure of fear and respect you deserve. [ March 12, 2003, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: Steve C ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les the Sarge 9-1b Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Cheating does one other harmful thing to the experience. When a game of skill, is sullied by cheating, the game environment becomes suspect, potentially interested persons shy away, and soon the game loses out on the one aspect most claim is the single best reason for playing computer games. People that hack a game, that encourage cheating, and that actually cheat themselves, are in some ways, as harmful as thieving pirates. If a person turns away from online activity, and potentially stops contributing, the person is lost to the community. A lost gamer, is a lost future sale too potentially. If you find a person cheating, hang them out to dry. But make sure you have iron clad evidence. Because false accusations are like virus hoaxes, they do as much damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Adolf and Hermann -- Take Two! -- Roll'em. "Yes Adolf, I got carried away, I figured why stop at three or four Luftflottes when it was just as easy to place ten or twenty. With a name like Twiddle I didn't think he'd object. I thought it would be like taking the Sudetenland." "Hermann, you miss the point. Greed and treachery and cheating are all contemptable habits and ought to be shunned. We must respect the rights and property of others. Unless, of course, they happen to be Polish, Danish, Norwegian, Dutch, Belgian, Luxemberers, French, Slavic, Bolsheiviks or some sort of untermenschen." [ March 13, 2003, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Ahhhh - another good one. Best note was by Rambo - DO THE MATH - weve come so far in the who is cheating area. From misreading the scouting report to todays hacking BTW - he had seven air and 16 land units under the Germans (Germany starts with 3 and 12) Its 3 and 15 not 3 and 12 - OPPs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I've just play tested this out in a hotseat game. On the turn of 3rd March 1940 the Axis have bought their 6th air fleet, and I'm just 25MPPs short of having enough for a 7th. Admittedly I did operate one Panzer unit for the invasion of the Low Countries that wasn't needed (I did operate a couple of other units that were), so I could have done it. Or if the plunder had been slightly greater... While I made no repairs whatsoever, my conclusion is that it is possible for the Axis to have 7 air fleets by this turn. I didn't buy the extra land unit, but then an extra corps could have been bought if the plunder was greater. It should also be borne in mind that my attack on Poland didn't go as well as usual, even though I was playing against myself! [ October 30, 2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Bill101 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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