Les the Sarge 9-1b

This is it guys in minutes there won't be any Les the Sarge 9-1b, there will only be a Les the Sarge 9-1 (no "b"). Just got the okydoky for the new account, and this me is signing off. The next time you see me, I will be just Les the Sarge 9-1. Yee admins may retire this old me account at your pleasure.

I'm going to reply to this thread, because stacking is the only thing that has ever made me wonder as far as actual game design is concerned. Ok after you have mentioned all the blather about historical frontages, and terrain limitations and points of contact, the fact remains, SC only places one unit in a hex, because that is how the software was made, and it has nothing to do with anything else. That much is fairly transparent, and is not the end of the world. It ranks up there with the reason there were only so many minor neutral counters in Third Reich. It was because there were only so many spaces on the counter sheet, and had nothing to do with anything else. In Advanced Third Reich they fixed this. Each nation had it's own private force pool of counters, and if you attacked that nation, you dealt with that nation, no dodge where you were able to just walk in, because you had strategically purged the game of available counters by previously declaring war elsewhere. There is ZERO reason why a fleet which is ships that take up zero land, can't occupy a port simultaneously with a land unit which occupies zero amount of water in a port. And an air unit, is not deployed militarily like a land unit, so discussions of a land units footprint in a hex has no relevance to where those planes land units would be deployed. Additionally, a HQ unit is not deployed like a frontline unit. So all that said, a person can basically rant till hell freezes over, and it will not address the fact there is no reason a fleet a land unit a ship unit and an HQ unit can't all simultaneously occup a port location. If an "army" can occupy a hex, and the game considers a "corps" a generic half army (with no desire to fret over national variations on historical deployment specifics), then it is seemingly pointless to argue that two corps could not occupy a hex. But to do this is simple. If the player wishes to deploy two generic half armies called corps into the same hex, merely code the software into merging both into an army counter (because clearly two halves make a whole, or at least my limited math skills suggest it does). There doesn't need to be any messy justifications. I loaded up the 39 campaign five seconds ago. How about that, a corps costs me 125 and an army 250. Not surprising that half of something should cost half of something. No gain to be had then merging two corps into armies, you are not getting something for nothing. Naturally if you merge a veteran corps with a greener one, you should suffer replacement effects. Personally, I think any average programmer should be able to manage the math that we should be telling the computer where that is concerned. It is all number crunching, and isn't that what computers are supposed to be good at? All of my ideas will no doubt be undoable inside of the current SC design, so I am frankly not going to waste energy asking for them to be crammed into it. I can adjust to no stacking, it is just a condition to play under. You just have to use timing, planning, and realise your air unit will not be able to appear in the same region as a ground unit, and you will have to decide what sort of unit sits in a port to hold it. Want to know what I would like to see on the subject of stacking? I would like to see Hubert state for the record, that stacking is equal to the lack of adequate counters from Third Reich hehe. Nothing to do with history or military deployment characteristics, and everything to do with how he was able to figure out coding the games counters. Sometimes I think people read to much into why a designer did what they did Most of us are fairly extensively schooled in both military history and wargame design. But a lot of us seem to fail to realise, that often there is a very simple reason for a seemingly simple problem, that has no available solution. If and that is a big IF, if Hubert ever does SC2 or whatever he wants to call it, I would like him to remove this lack of stacking element from the design. But as we speak, I plan on playing SC just as SC with no intention of asking for it to be "eventually" replaced with a better SC. I don't neeeeeed a "better" SC. If we find any major design glitches that just plain damage the games ability to run, it might justify a 1.08 patch "IF" Hubert has the time. But I am not going to wait here constantly asking for more. What I would like to see from our more analytical membership, is some more mods and or Campaigns to keep the game fresh. I am saying this as a person that is just now finishing off doing some intense play testing of yet another Mega Campaign for Steel Panthers. I thought a 4th MC would never see the light of day actually. But an MC is not a redesign of Steel Panthers, it is just a major release of something to be used with Steel Panthers. Ask not what SC can do for you, ask what you can do for SC should be the motto of our members that are always claiming to be so good at the game. You champs (and you know who I am referring to don't you) , if you haven't made a mod for the game yet, then you are not as much of a champ as the guys that have eh. Want that hero medal? get out there and produce something for the game. Right now I would like to salute the creator of the SC Strategy Guide for a job above and beyond. And our mod creators, I want to say your actions merit a salute too. Just winning the game a lot only makes you an enthusiastic supporter hehe.

Was just being sensible about it Bill. I have been a lurker ever since I left, so I can say I might have never left, but well I was definitely not happy about the way things were (and might well still be). But this thread has so far showed me that coming out of lurkdom might have been worth it. I have watched the on again off again insanity and some days just wanted to yell out something. I have noticed that some of the fire might be going out of some of the members. They need to perhaps try to stop playing SC quite so much and maybe quite so seriously. It's just a game. Might be one of the better games out there for what it does, but there is indeed life outside of the SC forum. Some of the silliness I think might have possibly kept some possible new blood from actually getting involved. Nothing scares off a grognard faster than than petty stupidity. Rather than our esteemed SC fanatics making the site look silly, they should be making the game look like the best thing since sliced bread hehe. I am sure there are established wargaming leagues out there using the SC forum as the poster child for what to not make a good league look like hehe. Oh and no, I ain't selling my ASL Actually, I have rather enjoyed helping Don get ASL up and fun looking over at Warfare HQ. Must be other ASL sites out there, but who cares, Don has done a great job making his a first and only stop ASL destination. Now if I can only locate a similar A3R site (yeah must be one out there). [ September 26, 2003, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Les the Sarge 9-1b ]

I looked into that Road To War link, this comment was the key attraction for me I guess. "The game is a turn based strategy game, defined as each team making its moves before agreeing to 'end turn', and only then are the moves actually carried out." If that isn't WEGO then I guess I don't know what is. I personally like WEGO enough to play even a hohum design using it. But until I see an actual demo, I guess there is no point in going much further. They mentioned it being freeware, and that will catch a bit of attention. But being free won't actually make it defacto worthless. And frankly, just because you pay for something, doesn't defacto make it any good. I had such hopes for HoI the moment I saw it, and then poof all those hopes went up in flames. You could not even pay me to play that game. 1933 The Road to War only has one barrier in my opinion. And that would be, can a suitable wargame even be attempted beginning in 33. Hitler was damned lucky between 33 and 41. Numerous times, if the Allies had had any balls, he would never have been around to make history. And just as any wargame beginning in 39 often ends up being a game where the Germans seemingly hold all the cards, in 33 he was really more a bluff than a reality.

Thanks for the welcome Jersey. About all I would lose in an account switch is my member number in a lower digit range. And that is of no account to me. Anyone that knows me knows me enough to know I am not new hehe. For those that wonder about the monicker, Les the Sarge 9-1 has no connection with my time in uniform. I was never more than a mediocre 031 grunt in the Royal Canadian Regiment in the 70's hehe. Sarge 9-1 is my tribute to Sgt Kelso of the German infantry counter mix from Squad Leader. Kelso performed some incredible feats of heroism for me many years ago hehe. He was a 9-1 leader. I am hoping to be that voice that people will hear when the cry for SC2 gets to loud. Just plain SC is a fine game. It doesn't need immediate fixing. I regularly promote it as one of the better choices for people entering wargaming. If you can't play SC and enjoy it on your first evening, you might want to consider if you actually want to play wargames. Kurt, I am going to send you an opening turn if that is cool with you. I will play Germans in 41 Campaign if that is cool with you. I will include in email what conditions exist in the game (game start options). I will also give you my preferred game style preferences in detail for your approval. If they are acceptable, just send me your response turn. For the record, I expect a person to get right of next game choice next game. So after this one, it will be your call. I have not played other than PBEM so far. And only a few games, so I will ease into more agressive activities slowly.

Famous hehe I hope not Well I am known here and there, hardly famous I would think. I have encountered a few types in my time that won't have anything nice to say, but then we all know a few persons like that. I am a forum veteran from Matrix Games though, I have a lot of people that know me from Wargamer, I am also active at Warfare HQ. My latest efforts have been directed at working on the latest Mega Campaign for Steel Panthers. I also have a sub forum for model makers at Wargame that was basically my idea (but no I don't own it nor run it hehe). Regarding games with me, always open. I think I am going to bill myself as the live interactive SC tutorial hehe. I should at least be a bit better than the AI hopefully

Well my advice is worthless if I won't use it myself I guess That said, I am normally of the opinion, if you have something to say, say it where those you have to say it to will hear it. So that's it in a nutshell. I will discontinue my lamenting over at Wargamer in the Battlefront sub forum, because it is pointless to do it there. Don't expect me though to carte blanche reverse some of my earlier feelings vis a vis the Battlefront way of doings things in general. That said, don't expect me to refrain from jumping on your head in here if the situation warrants it (and no I don't post messages with foul language or wierd pictures, way to juvenile for a guy my age). First thing I want to say, is I want the powers that be to stop littering the forum with threads that are obvious refuse. A lock is only good for so much eh. If the post is a spam attack, just delete the dumb thing. It makes it hard for anyone to scroll backwards from page one to see if anything is of interest. Ok I didn't come here to rant about Forum dynamics, I said my piece on that, and that's it. If nothing gets done on that matter, well it ain't my forum, nor my head ache to run. Regarding SC itself though, I do have some thoughts. What in the blazes is with all the league insanity? What is with all the postering? Are you guys wargamers or class clowns? By the way Rambo I saw you over at Matrix Games, hope you enjoy the site. They don't mind silly posts, the forum there has a healthy sense of humour. I am going on record as saying I have not played SC to death, I still like it just fine. The measure of a good wargame is it stays a good wargame by virtue of a good design. If you play it 3 times a day for a solid year, yeah it will get boring, go get a real life for a while hehe. I ain't interested in house rules, so don't bug me with them. Most House rules are for people that play the game to often and have lost the ability to be surprised. I am not obsessed with playing ONLY the 39 Campaign game, and I usually prefer our getting to know each other games to be post 1941 Barbarossa campaign selection. Of course there are those that think they are so much better than the leaders of the time. But in the end, playing the opening of the war endlessly ruins the experience. I am not at the moment interested in joining a league. Certainly not any with silly sounding names. I am not volunteering to participate in something like a "world championship". I prefer to play each game individually and on it's own merits one at a time. I have not uncovered any Gambits, nor have I mastered the fine art of the perfect tech purchases. If you are new to the game, and want to play a veteran wargamer give me call. I won't promise to be a genius at SC (yet), but you won't be playing someone that plays the game to death till they have unlocked every possible permutation either (or at least the perfect first turn of the 39 campaign). For those that don't yet know me (I ain't been around for a while), I am no one's idea of a novice wargamer. I play SC because it is a well made game. Hubert designed a first rate easy to play grand strategy simulation. He did a better job at SC, than many other designers have done in their own games I also don't mind adding. I have thought a few design elements might have been done differently, but I am not currently one of the individuals clamouring for SC2 or whatever you wish to call it at this time. I am not earnestly in need of a 1.08 Patch either. I am on record as being grumpy about there being no stacking like as in Advanced Third Reich, but I am not in need of Hubert making SC into A3R. And that is that. If you have thoughts to offer fine, if your only point in posting is to make idiotic comments, please do them in your own thread please. You may attack my ideas, but personal attacks will be not given any slack. I am not sure I will be posting many posts, the process of learning the design and commenting on the design is basically already old news. The game is as done as dinner. A good piece of advice, is to check out the SC Strategy Guide, the author did a fine job on it. It will likely answer any new comers questions more effectively than any question in here. Attension Moon, I had thought about a fresh start account, but actually, I am really only wanting to remove the lower case "b" at the end of my identity ie Les the Sarge 9-1b. This was a notion I used initially when branching out from my origina over at Matrix Games. If you have the capacity to edit that lower case b, please do that for me. If this is possible, I will dispense with that new account I submitted today. If it is not possible, then I would rather employ that soon to be accepted account, and delete this one. Yes I know seems like a petty thing, but I have converted all my other online accounts eleswhere to read Les the Sarge 9-1 (with no additives). I would rather it be that way if possible.

It appears the honeymoon is over guys. The site owners are well aware of the situation, no need to make a fuss. I am unlikely going to be able to participate here in much further. I hope the game goes well, I hope SC grows expands and prospers. But I will have to look from the outside. Drop me a line at Matrix or Wargamer if anything interesting is done with SC.

I think 1.07 would be nice. Now what happened to this just being add your name if you would like to say yes please

I agree Monty is not even worthy of inclusion and is not rated correctly. On the other hand, if Patton had gotten his way, he would have landed at the Pas de Calais, and ruined his career permanently. Still, as long as his boss had a good grip on the leash, Patton was one dangerous Army commander. Clarke is underated, but he was stuck in Italy where no one was able to shine much. Rommel was also a Patton, he was dangerous, but a lot of his fame was being at the right place at the right time, not personal briliance. Ike was the real Allied brains in Europe, he was able to get De Gaulle to speak to Churchill after all, that takes genius. I also think to many ignore mentioning Kesselring. He often had left overs to fight with, and still had to perform. [ April 01, 2003, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Les the Sarge 9-1b ]

[ March 31, 2003, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: Les the Sarge 9-1b ]

Jack why is your thread titled "about SS" ?

He has talked, and he has mentioned he has enjoyed the comments, and those threads are a bit further down the pipeline unfortunately. Gotta get out yer shovel and dig a bit though.

SC is like most good wargames, in that there is always someone that thinks that such and such should be done differently. On a positive yes get yourself a copy note, you will be buying a game that is for one, greatly below the norm for new wargames (heck even the crud can cost twice as much normally). That and while you might have issues with the simulation on a historical or technological level, you won't be saying things like "I would like this game if they fixed this bug or that glitch". SC is definitely a solid purchase as software goes. It runs a great deal better that a great deal of supposedly great games out there. Hubert might re invent the game someday, and address all these niggling design issues us fussy gamers insist upon, but until then, you might as well join in with your 25 bucks, and enjoy what might be a rare experience, a very enjoyable game. There is time enough to fret over pet annoyances of design another time. me for instance, I look forward to stacking units in a hex being re worked. But I might as well just have fun with the game till then.

Kuni is showing signs of to much watching the latest news I think. He is suffering from brain rot. Don't worry Kuni it will wear off .

Calling it 1.5 is not going to make it any easier on Hubert eh heheh. 1.5, SC2, or "flavour of the moment, or SC monthly still requires he sit at a computer and do a lot of work. When we call it SC2, I think we are all saying the much new and much improved SC with all our requests factored in. Personally, if it takes him till next spring to give us a new version SC, I would think he was rather quick to act eh. I myself am not expecting to see a revolution in the SC design sooner than Q1 2004.

Not sure how this notion will work. I have seen that having no subs suddenly means no sub warfare losses. I would rather a once each turn sub based loss be inflicted on Britain, then a once usable assault on allied naval units (that comes with no long term gain and no assurances of success). So I tend to take my subs and just find the furthest must remote most useless spot on the map, and hide there. Of course it is possible the allied player will just go and sit in the furthest spots on the map, find the two lousy sub counters, and tras them. I am sure the allies during WW2 would have like it being that simple. The game might better simulate retaliating against the subs, by creating ASW counters. The mere existence of an operating ASW counter , would impact the automatic loses imposed by the subs. It would render the simulation more accurately. Currently all we have is 2 stupid sub counters in the atlantic simulating sitting ducks. And I can't picture anyone mounting a bombing offensive on this game. So in a swoop, I would be inclined to say, SC does not possess any form of Strategic Warfare. It's operational warfare waged on a grand strategy scale mostly.

Cheating does one other harmful thing to the experience. When a game of skill, is sullied by cheating, the game environment becomes suspect, potentially interested persons shy away, and soon the game loses out on the one aspect most claim is the single best reason for playing computer games. People that hack a game, that encourage cheating, and that actually cheat themselves, are in some ways, as harmful as thieving pirates. If a person turns away from online activity, and potentially stops contributing, the person is lost to the community. A lost gamer, is a lost future sale too potentially. If you find a person cheating, hang them out to dry. But make sure you have iron clad evidence. Because false accusations are like virus hoaxes, they do as much damage.

Yes I agree with "units fight individually". As it currently stands, it is merely just the impossibility of getting more than one unit into the same hex, so that one can be the initial assault unit, and the other the unit that punches the hole. To take two units and add them together in a single mega roll of the dice, is perhaps to severe a design alteration (not to mention it isn't needed).

It ain't all roses, I do most of the housework (well I need it to occupy me wen not wargaming or etc). Sowing wild oats, can't relate to that though. Never sowed anything myself. I picked a winner on the first try. Good judge I guess (which exlains why I am a tricky wargamer hehe, I can smell a good choice ).

Back to SC yeah that's what the thread is about now that I think of it. I agree throw in airmarshalls too. Hey no one has said a player is going to have HQs looking like Marshalls Admirals, Air marshalls all at the same time, and be able to buy superfluous troops and all that with no one looking eh. Kesselring ran the show in the Med. So he was an Airman so what. He was likely in game terms the only German HQ in the Mediteranean theatre as well. No land HQ no Admirals just him. There would have to be benefits to choosing an Airmarshall type HQ, but the cash supply would certainly limit how many total HQs a side could actually have all at the same time eh. [ March 11, 2003, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Les the Sarge 9-1b ]

As always I am the odd one I suppose. My wife gives me "action" twice a day, and I wargame whenever I want. I wonder what it is I am doing right . When I figure out the secret though, I will let you guys know. Sure is cool having my cake and eatng it too.

CoS might only suffer from being to far back in computer wargaming evolution. With me, it is mostly about it's interface, not much else. Sure there might be some design issues. Hard to go back for a fresh look, I to can't get that dinosaur to run on my current computer. So there it is. As for HoI, well it is RTS, which for the detail of that game was grotesque judgement. Just deciding to make it RTS makes me question the worth of the game's creator. So even if you discount all the reasons why specifically HoI is not worthy to keep beer spill off your table, I still have zero desire to see SC migrate to anything remotely like RTS. Hubert might be able to do it right (unlike the people that gave us HoI), but I would still flatly refuse to play grand strategy even at the current SC scale of complexity. Some things are a bad idea, regardless of how it is done.

It might be possible to get a lot of people into a volkswagen too dude, but then try and go grocery shopping with your wife like that.

Very Impressive disorder. But some of those details will be a bitch trying to scale into the game. But you made a great response in your post.