The problems with America strike back! (Problems with america 2)

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

Ok lets stay on topic here.

I like BB's Idea of a random entry of the US but then it must enter on december 10 (11?) 1941. Thoughts

Please stay on topic

CVM

[Lars]

Disagree.

Random means random.

If you want them to enter on Dec 7 just switch from random to historical on that date as was posted earlier.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

what is mean is. Its random to a point. IE. America's war percentage will continue to work as already in the game. If however, america hasnt reached 100% By december 1941, then they enter automatically.

[Lars]

I just don't think you need Hubert to patch the game to allow something that can already be done when playing the computer by changing the game options during play or could be done with a house rule when PBEM.

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

i mentioned that in an earlier post, manually setting it during the game. It wasnt my intention to get hubert to fix this. Just to see the opinions of the fellow gamer

CVM

[Lars]

Oh I see.

Well, I have to say I enjoy the random settings more than the historical. Kind of keeps you on your toes.

[KevGaming]

Have to agree with Lars on this point.

In my most recent game as the Allies the US of A stayed out of the war until late 1942.

By which time most of my units in Britain were stationed in Scotland out of range of the level 5 jets with some long range tech air fleets the Germans had.

Makes it much more exciting!

[ August 06, 2002, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: KevGaming ]

[Straha]

It's generally not a good idea to take *options* away from a game. If you want a historical entry of the US, you always can choose the historical settings.

Straha

[KevGaming]

On the subject of America.

For a country that could mass produce ships, tanks, planes, etc like car assembly line. I feel that 180MPPs per turn are abit on the small side.

Now I realise that MPPs are calculated by a formula. But in all the games I've played America's imput has been far less than historical.

Just a thought.

[BiggN]

Yes i agree when the US can only make 1 bomber every 3 or so turns it does seem like they are a bit under powered with 180mmp

As for the Historical Vs Random Vs Historically Random it should be a new option and not take away from the completly random options

[Straha]

If we make the Allies still stronger, there's zero point anymore in playing them against the AI. Even at this point, it is only fun if the Axis gets experience +1.

Straha

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

true, but on the 180mpp's issue, just go to the editor, and give'em some industrial tech

[Gunslingr3]

I figured out the solution to the Random/Historical problem. Put it on random, then on December 10th, 1941, you can have your Germans declare war on the U.S. first just like they idiotically did.

Viola!

...'course this doesn't work if you're the Allies...

Gunslinger

[MrWinterbottom]

Totally disagree.

Random means random. Really.

Besides, it was GERMANY that declared war on the good, ol' US if my frail memory serves me correct, so if you play as the axis and want to do it according to history you could always just declare war and be done with it.

Not like it's a big deal or anything.

[Randell Daigre]

If an Axis player can figure out how to do anything worthwhile towards winning the war and *still* keep the U.S. out of the war, then more power to him! Cunning should always be rewarded. Personally, I have always managed (somehow) to piss the U.S. off enough to get them into the war in a timely manner.

[USGrant]

I have a slightly different issue with America in the game. I like the random entry component for the US and Russia, but I wonder if they could use some calibration.

Based on my limited experience so far with the full game I wonder if the US is programmed to almost always enter "early"? Early US entry was a pet peeve of mine in Clash of Steel. In that game the entry changes were listed in the docs, and if you added up the historical Axis conquests, the US automatically came in 6 months or so early. I have not yet tried exactly historical Axis DOWs with SC, but have been close and seen the US enter 6 months early (whereupon they immediately began the already described, half-hearted Overlords in 1941). I may have been way out on the randomizer, but from watching the entry percentages I don't think so.

This is not really an issue for me against the AI, but could be a problem against humans. US entry in mid-41 could make conquest of Russia impossible against a human.

What are other folks' experiences?

[ August 07, 2002, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: USGrant ]

[Marc]

So far I have played the 39 and 40 Scenarios as the allies.

In the 40 Scenario America entered right on time.

In the 39 Scenario America didnt enter until midway through 42.

So, would seem America doesnt always enter early.

Marc

[Willard]

I think the problem stems from the term "random."

My understanding is that its not a random entry ala "pull a number out of a hat." "Random" in this case means that entry may or may not occur, based upon actual historical dates/events. In this case, under "random entry" rules, your play and your results should determine if/when US enters. Historically, the U.S. enters the war in Dec 1941 vs the Germans because the Germans declared war first. I think as the German player (if events in your game havent caused the US to declare prior) should have the option to declare war in Dec 1941---and this already exists on the war map screen. However, if events in your game have not precipitated entry of the US in the war, then it should not happen automatically. That way your play and your results will affect a US decision to enter.

IF the Germans did not declare war on the US in Dec 1941, the Americans may not have entered until 1942 or 1943- when events such as Stalingrad or Kursk may have "triggered" a US war entry. I mean for all we know, if the US doesnt get Pearl Harbored, maybe they dont enter at all????