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Many of the Dutch were dedicated Waffen Troops. I know of one Belgian in particular half German who served hardcore for the Wermacht. Though they felt the wraith of Nazi occupation<how many young girls do you think they didn't rape in that country? hmmm?> Foolish foolish people to think Iraq is somehow not a nation that needed fixing. I'll bet 50% of Non Sunni woman were raped in Iraq...I'll bet there are so many actrocities you don't hear about, they could go on for a mile if you created a list on paper! Along with so many others, you know at least my Country fights for Freedom. When was the last time Belgium was involved in a war of freeing anyone but themselves?

As far as the USA is concerned the worst I've seen them do in recent years or past years is Destroying the Native Indians and to add to that maybe selling too many arms to 3rd World and unstable Nations during the Cold War.. Greed!

Europe is jealous they're Yesterdays Power. America is todays power. That's the simple fact of this, snobby Foreigners talking trash on a topic they never researched. I know Germans and French, and other such folk personally. I've lived in Germany and England. They're grateful they're not German Puppets, they don't particularly love Americans but they know that they need them. Even Russia realizes this to a degree because they know sacrifice.. Something I think few of you realize or understand. When I get drafted, God Forbid it happens, and I go over there to fight for you and WW3 breaks up, and I'm a General in Command of an American Army 40 years from now, I'm going to skip protecting the Guy who pointed his finger at what he can't possibly comprehend. See him pick up a rifle and defend his Freedom then, when the enemy is at his gates and me and mine isn't there fighting his wars for him!

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Kurt, Nazism is dead.. We know there are few True Nazis left, if there are any number of them a majority live in the Vatican and Eastern Europe now adays. I've heard of a few in France and Quebec in Numbers...that's about it... Belgium had some I'm sure, not as many as the US. Nazi is often a term to describe these type of People:


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hi back! @Liam: many belgians have fought in the resistance against nazi occupation, like my granpa, only a minority worked together with the germans. I bet you many coalition soldiers were involved in several rapes too, soldiers are human beings, some of them are crap. I apologize for my little country not to have an army big enough to get involved in 'LIBERATION' wars all over the world, preaching democracy and the american way of life to those poor oppressed iraqi pple. You americans on the battlefront forum are all hardcore republicans, its really strange: everything is black or white in your country, i mean look to rambo, 'your with us or your against us' well such attitude is like begging for troubles. NOT ALL AMERICANS R LIKE THAT a friend of mine studies in chicago, just got back with a girlfriend, against bush policies, pro-democrats, she was really against the war in iraq, someone with brains: her brother is in Iraq, a us soldier, he is extremely pissed on Bush, and i understand that. And do not underestimate europe. What do you think we are the world second economy, very close to yours. Our total militaries are 1/4 of yours. There are plans for a european army. About being grateful... i am, what do you have to do about it? we live now, do you think my family was involved in nazi murders? its about nations man, and france and belgium, and germany, disagreed with a distant war, its not about pple having debts, i do not owe you anything. My country ows you its respect for your help, that does not mean following blindly. Of course when we look further, there are a lot of reasons to believe the us took a loooooooong time to enrich themselves before coming to our help (afraid of the communist comeback), but so what, they came to help us. But the US of now are not the same of before. Your country is now involved in illegal warfare, taking advantage of its nr1 position to further gaining power, and wealth. But pple over there are still the same, and you know, europeans and americans do not differ much. The war in iraq is just worsening the whole situation, when you face terrorism, you have to act against the real terrorists, not telling lies to your people and using the bombing attacks as excuse to invade a sovereign country. 9-11 and saddam: LINK NOT EXISTING ok. So now the us is begging for support from the 'unwilling', well u know....not going to happen. Im proud of my government stance against that stupid war, i dont get it: bush wants a rise of terrorism, or he is very greedy, or he is very stupid. Iraq has become the playground for foreign fighters of islam. And the oppressed iraqi population will keep rallying the rebels, rebellion mixed with islamic extremism, the whole situation is just chaotic. By further supporting israel the usa are just worsening their image towards the arabic public opinion. Face it: you can't play the sherif there easily, and you didnt expect the rebellion to be so fierce. @rambo: stop seeing europe as one group of people that are mostly nazis. That means you do not understand europe , nor what it stands for. If you are a true christian, you should understand war is never a good way to handle. But you do not seem to understand the Word, as the bible is a way of better understanding the world, and bringing values to people. You do not seem to have got the values so far. Religion is more than going to the church to show your new suit to your fellow'christians'. Europe is a very beautiful, diverse place, we have very strong cultural identities, its more difficult to understand than the us. And for sure it has its bad points too, but maybe the us gov should listen more to the past and to its (ex?)-allies, they knew the war closely, and it was, mostly, a european mistake. We try to learn from the past.

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The point is entirely different. You haven't been reading all the anti American sentiment in these Postings. It is a reaction to the Governments, not all European Goverments. Italy and UK for instance support USA. Spain did till that little bomb went off. I hate to say it but your small nation relatively doesn't support mine from what I can tell and it has to do more with what? France didn't so neither does Belgium. Germany didn't either, but you don't hear them bicker too much cause they've got too much American Stock to want to upset their apple cart tongue.gif

Europe doesn't mind we do the dirty work, they'll even critisize us for it. Especially when they're partly responsible for these men over in the MidEast having Uber Weapons. I'll bet a majority of the equipment the USA destroyed was Russian and European..

Turn a blind eye to the reality of War. A blind eye to what goes on in the World. Oh, War is wrong. This is not Vietnam, these men over there are baby killers! Kiddy Rapists! Terrorists who'll murder you while you sleep! We attack them with tanks and airplanes and we're the bad guy? So we've contributed to their evil also, I don't pretend we haven't, at least we're doing something about it now. Nothing Republican about that point of view! Fix the Problem! Bill Clinton was a great president, but he failed in dealing with foreign affairs. Bush is a so so foreign affairs president. We don't have a brilliant President I'm sad to say, but for now we work with what we have and at least he's not twiddling his thumbs while the Evil in the World goes UnChecked like Europe did in Yugoslavia for near a decade!

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@Qyusson --- I'm no warmonger, neither is the United States. Iraq is the one who invaded Kuwait, raped its women, murdered their people, lit fire to the oil wells, launched missiles randomly on Israel, lost the war, rejected the agreed U.N. resolutions, tortured their own Olympians, gassed Kurds, murdered their own son-in-laws, starved people, instituted torture chambers, etc.

The United States offered Saddam Insane a free pass from all his crimes if only he'd reliquish power & move on. Saddam could have taken a bunch of cash, & left. No, Saddam wouldn't listen to international law, laughed at the U.N. agreement, & was shooting anybody against him. Next in line were his piece of crap sons, who were even more evil.

The United States was attacked on Sept. 11, 2001 for no reason. Something had to be done. I understand what the Lord Jesus Christ means about not wanting war. The Bible N.T. also states governments have their own roles & responsibilites. The people of the United States had a long struggle to obtain freedom, economic opportunity, & a good life style. These madmen like Saddam, Osama, & however are trying to obtain nuclear weapons to destory us. We're not going to sit here & wait. It's a race.

The United States also believes in the protection of Israel, especially George W. Bush who claims salvation thru the Lord Jesus Christ. We'd love to get along with the Muslim world or whoever, but they seem to provoke the events of the day.

Far as the people of the United States, you're correct, not everybody believes in the war in Iraq. They're stupid. It will be too late if these crazies in the Middle East get nukes. Did you see the recent murders of school children? This world has a terror problem, & we're going to find them & those who harbor them. France & Germany are on the sidelines, we can't count on them helping the cause. England & Israel are our only true friends. It's called preservation.

World War II has been over nearly 60 years ago. Hitler, Himmler, Dr. Mengel, Eichmann, Heydrich, Goering, Jodl, & the rest are dead & gone. If somebody didn't stop them, millions more would have been butchered like pigs. The complacent attitude allowed them to rise to power. All the Euros act like,"Oh, it wasn't my family, it was Hitler's fault!". The entire nation of Germany & many neighboring countries love Hitler, the great murderous deceiver. Then, once the war swung the other way, they denied him.

These cowards in the USA are the same way. Kerry, that chick you mentioned in Chicago, & the Michael Moore's talk a good game...when they are nice & safe under the blanket of protection we hold. Countries have borders, I have no respect for countries that cannot defend their borders. When our borders are crossed & people killed, we're going to defend ourselves. If we sit around & do nothing, it would be just a matter of time before buses start blowing up & other nasty stuff.

Far as these loser US troops that are against the war, they are far & few between. We don't have a draft in this country. If they don't like listening to the Commander In Chief, they never should have chosen of their own freewill, a job in the military.

"I'm proud to be an American, because at least I know I'm free. I'll glady stand up...you know the rest" --- Lee Greenleaf's song.

Far as your family fighting Nazis in WW-2, hats off to them! Somebody was trying to kill Anne Frank, while somebody was hiding them. So lots of Euros stood up for what was right best they could. I wish you dudes would support our war on terror, lets defeat these scumbags, institute democracy & freedom to a supressed world.

Legend for the great State of Washington >>> OUT

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@Euro Dudes --- I've got no beef with you. You're probably nice guys. The issue at hand is the Iraqi war, not WW-2 which is over obviously. Even if your Dad or GrandDad was Himmler, you can't help that. Anytime you want to visit, let me know, we can go golfing in the Columbia Gorge, or Pacific Coast. Seattle is famous for their coffee, bands, & software companies. Portland is a hippie town with lots of culture, Boise is Mormonville. DisneyWorld is cool waydown in California or Florida.

Camp Rambo

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1.THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS THE BELGIAN EMPIRE, yes, leopold the 2nd was an ass, a dictator, does that mean all belgians are?

2.yes, some Belgians fought in the Whermacht, does that mean all Belgians are Nazi's??

I remember some pictures and a film of American citizens greeting the Nazi-flag, at some sort of camp(camp Rambo? tongue.gif ),When the war started they were 'observed' by the FBI. At least we punished our collaborators as soon as we had the chance, your just went free.

3.We DID NOT get any colony from Germany, we annexed a part of Germany, do you really think you know Belgian history better than a Belgian?? They teach us this stuff at high school.

4.Amsterdam??you clearly don't have any idea what you're talking about.

5.I wasn't defending Saddam at all. Like I said before, I have Iraqui neighbours and they didn't move because of the war but way earlier than that,because of Saddam.In the Beginning of the war they were quite enthousiastic about it, but now they don't know what happened to their family.The Mother of the family is worried sick about her two sons that worked as doctors in a hospital in Baghdad.I don't hate America, I just think you handled this entirely the wrong way and for the wrong reasons, it's a mistake, just like Congo was until 1902(and after that).

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As originally posted by Qyusson:

You americans on the battlefront forum are all hardcore republicans, its really strange:



Not true! ;)

I guess I have been around about as long as anyone posting here, and I can tell you this:

I for one ain't no soft-hand, fat jowl'd, clean-knee Republican, thank the almighty Lord!

Look here, unless you have lived in America for a very long time, you can't really KNOW what is going on. Same way I couldn't possibly KNOW what the true political picture is in Belgium.

Let's put it this way.

Currently, in America (... and, I surely suspect, in Europe as well) the Plutocrats are ascendant.

These are the ones who make their money off of... OTHER people's labor.

Used to be it was good old faithful and QUIETLY patriotic American Workers that were exploited.

Now, since those workers finally got smart and got their "rights" and a minimum of "work-place safety" and finally, just... earned TOO MUCH, the workers in India or China or Indonesia are being exploited, and THEIR lands polluted.

The Corporate CEOs swagger and brag and play golf a lot and have sufficient hi-tech health care and can buy the very best of organic foodstuffs and pleasure-craft to roam the waterways, and also copious amounts of drugs, which they label as legal, but are actually worse than most drugs deemed illegal. That way they won't have to go to jail for over indulging.


They don't actually... work, themselves.

The one thing they absolutely need, nay, REQUIRE,

is for a small, hard-edged group of filthy mouth minions to dominate and control the Mass Media.

Once they do that, as they have here in America (... and, they are paid huge amounts to do it; being finally truly Selfish, all they can think about is... money, and what it will buy them, though, of course, LOL! :D they soon die and can't take any of that stuff with them), then they can lie and lie and lie again and again and again, telling everyone that Black is indeed White, and that War is really truly Peace, and genuine, thoughtful Patriots are actually... Cowards.

Have no fear, Qyusson, we KNOW what is happening here. ;)

We WILL solve the problem, soon enough, you'll see. ;) (... example: rather than rant on forums, we are out signing up new and old Voters and quietly talking about REAL issues. The State I live in will be closely contested, so I spend lots of time as a volunteer making sure that this "little d" Democracy actually works!)

Those sissy sociopathic Chicken-Hawks (... MOST of whom... NEVER fought for their Country when they had the chance, as in Vietnam, or just... ran stupidly drunk & smirking from the battle and hid out in a saloon for the duration) will soon be found out... EVEN by those simple, leave-me-alone folks who mostly just want some elbow room so they can farm their land, or make their little honest Artisan creations, and then go to the Ice Cream Parlor on a happy Saturday night! smile.gif

Nope, not all members here are Republicans.

Thank the good Lord. smile.gif

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@Deserter Dave --- Yep, your not a Republican. More like a Commie against corporate America. Lets follow Cuba's game plan & we all can be poor.

@Rosey --- So your Iraqi neighbors dislike Saddam & move, we remove the murderer, & you're against us? Amsterdam, Holland, Dutch, Belgium, Brussells, The Hage, Netherlands, LowCountries, Luxemberg...guess what? I don't give a rat's ass what you call that little "rollover country". You're not a factor, nobody cares. American policy is upto George W. Bush & we're going to kick some ass.

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@Deserter Dave

Typical of the leering lunatic fringe these days... when you CAN'T debate the facts of political existence, or when you CHOOSE to be a mouthpiece for fat cats who loll around and live off of UNEARNED profits,

What do you do?

Name calling. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Well, unlike Bush and Cheney and Stallone (... who hid out in a whorehouse instead of signing up) I volunteered to serve my country back in 1966.


Wise up kid, before it's too late.

Oh, not for America, it will surely surive this latest Goon Squad and their bluster and bravado.


For... you big guy... for you. ;)

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@Deserter Dave --- Just because you signed up for the Military to avoid jail time for some other crime you committed, well that's your business. If you truly did sign up for really defending the country, then how come you are verbaling attacking Capitalism? Michael Dell, Bill Gates, Carly Fiorina, Steve Jobs, Sam Walton, Simplot Family, Paul Allen, the list is endless of people that produce stuff. Sure they are making a profit, that's life. One must have incentive.

Why am I bothering to explain myself to this deserter? What did you do on the Ho-Chi-Ming trail anyways, throw waterballons?

Here's a novel idea. Take everything you own made by this corporate raiders & throw it out. You're a hypocrite...you hate corporations yet support them. Hypocrite, quit being so judgemental.

Judge not or thou shall be judged.

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Q, the Belgians were too late to the Pacific and other regions, they did have the Congo. They would've had more if they could've had more they just never had that chance, except the Land Grab of German possessions in Africa. I'd call that an attempt to be another Lowland Dutch Empire if I ever saw it! tongue.gif You just don't see it that way cause England/France/Netherlands/Portugal/Spain had already taken all the pickings. Just like the Danish were too late in that game, and the Germans and Italians were so so, but they looked to Europe instead for expansion. Belgium was just too much of a small fry for what the other Majors had done but whether you call a Nation that takes 1 Colony, or 20-30-40-50-60 Colonies an Empire, a Trading Empire, a Colonial Empire if it failed as One then was just a failure as one. It was still going after what it could get and just never had the chance to do what the other boys had done. I'd like to say, that if Belgium would've arose taken all the Lowlands, Including the Dutch, Kissed the Prussians rear and took out parts of France their Foreign Possessions with some great Leadership and luck, who knows... They may have actual Power

The Nation of the USA Needs both Republican and Democrats working together. Part of the problem of our Goverment failures is that the President doesn't work both sides. You need to appease the other side, cause usually in our Country one side Dominates the Presidential and the other Dominates the House. The two Bodies that will control what sort of bills come out of the US and whether or not we goto war or not.<at least what is done there, what money is spent>

Republican and Democratic, not so different from one another. Liberal or conservative. To be honest this election I'm worried about both Candidates, we're unfortunate not to have a wider selection and I'll likely refrain from Voting. Kerry, I just see bashing the hell out of Bush. Bush I just don't see as a powerful enough Speaker and Politician to do the job. So I see two men unable to fill my expectations.. I want more!!!

People think the USA is bad, goto England and check our the Parliment Debates ROFL :eek:

Americans are Greedy? Hmmm, Human Nature is greedy! What are you people Hindus? I'll bet the majority of us are Christian, and to be quite frank Christianity didn't get to be Uber due to sitting on their butts watching the Muslims and other Religions take over the World. Religion is about expanding your philopshy and point of view. Gold, Religion and Politics all go hand in hand. The whole system is corrupt from the early days onward, oh those early guys may have meant well but it all went down hill. How many here Tithe 10% of their income? I doubt any of you do, so it would hypocritical to say much of anything. From what I hear when Bill Gates dies he's giving his fortune away to charity, tell me 1 Euro Billionaire doing that?

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@Liam: i guess you wanted to answer to roosevelt45, coz i never mentioned any adoration of our colonial past. I too am from Belgium and i know my history. Our country has never had any other colonial ambitions other than congo, and our king Leopold II took it for himself first. He was like a dictator over there and rude laws were applied. Or no laws. It is a dark side in our history, but compared to the thousands of bad sides in US foreign policies, we are great.

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Bill Gates giving his fortune away? lol i want to see that first, im pretty sure a lot of euro billionaires do the same, what u think, being american means being superior, EUROPE is nr 1 in aid of the poorer, we have social security here u know, we do not let our poor starve in some corners of the cities..

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i know a lot of americans are normal people too ;)
Yeah, it's cool, we old Hi-way 61 hip, and we don't much care for pretty sniveling punks like those "Swift Boat Veterans" who told all those lies.

Apparently we're supposed to believe them, and NOT the Official Navy Records.... LOLOL! :D

Best they stay under the vulture-wing of all the rich Corporate cronies who pay them to mouth off.

Best they don't come down here on the Desert where I live... they just wouldn't make it, oh, the Desert is... a merciless, sun-blasting foe. ;)

BTW, rambo jr, I ain't opposed to Capitalism.

I am opposed to "welfare for the rich," which is what we have now.

Learn yer P & Q's, yes?

AND, quit that tantrum habit of calling people names, would you?

WHOEVER they are.

For WHATEVER reason... it ain't legimitate "smack," it's just... infantile and offensive.

TRY to keep yer cool. :cool:

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Bill Gates earned his money. He was a college student who bought an operating system that nobody wanted & everybody laughed at. The rest of the story is current history, I'm talking about history.

I'm glad Bill Gates is filthy rich, it shows the opportunity here in the United States. A simple college student made it big.

Bill gives away tons of money, he doesn't have to. He recently cut a $100,000,000 check to some cancer foundation in New York. He also started safe houses in India for prostitutes.

I don't understand what other system is better for the common person than Capitalism. At least you have a chance to make it big.

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Corporate cronies ---

Edwards - Made $39 million in the 1990's from lawsuits against various companies & institutions. How much has he given to charity? That shows you the hypocracy of the Democrats. They give you the "worker's of the World speach", yet are loaded themselves.

Kerry - What is he worth? $400 million or something? I'm a common dude who'd rather have a chance, then some Socialist Commie taken everything.

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Originally posted by Qyusson:

@Liam: i guess you wanted to answer to roosevelt45, coz i never mentioned any adoration of our colonial past. I too am from Belgium and i know my history. Our country has never had any other colonial ambitions other than congo, and our king Leopold II took it for himself first. He was like a dictator over there and rude laws were applied. Or no laws. It is a dark side in our history, but compared to the thousands of bad sides in US foreign policies, we are great.

He sure wasn't talking to me, I already expressed my disgust for Leopold the 2nd's treatment of the Congolese(and Boudewijn's support of the Mobutu regime afterwards).

So JJR, is Europe full of commies or Nazi's? because you seem to be calling us both.

Strange, I never realised that there were 2 other Belgians on this forum, I always thought I was alone smile.gif .

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