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Rambo, now I've always always told everyone I know: Americans are all full of spirit, heart, and good intention. They fought on the 'good' side in both world wars, korea, vietnam, others etc. I think as well that it was America, this century, that saved the world from the dictators. As far as being canadian, I think of you guys as next closest of kin.

I think in the context of WW2 and the 'if germany could have..', i was meaning to highlight a period and course of time that could have radically changed our world from the one we know now. I believe (at least by the books i've read), that it was really a hair's breadth away from that moment. It's mind boggling! All said, America and Roosevelt were instrumental in the allies' final victory, but Hitler and others were more instrumental in their own defeat.

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Your French attitude does not shock me. The next war you lose (and you're good at doing that) we may just watch.

To Sombra

Your right about Saudi Arabia, they are going to fall soon, then the whole world will be dependent on Russian Oil. Scary! I like your attitude about your grandfathers. Shows a lot of charactor.

To Rambo

Titus took Jerusalem in 70 ad, not 79. As a fellow Christian I wish that you would show more charity to the outsiders. Christ had mercy on us, predestinated us, chose us, died for us, we should have the same attitude towards the non-covenantal. (except for the French)

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People can be as hypocritical as they like... The USA is the Diet Coke of Evil SuperPowers over the centuries. Let me refer to some others:

My ancestors in the British Empire, Hmmm, talk about Evil? We dominated you Heathens, developed the Industrial Revolution, brought English to the World, kicked the biggest Land Power into submission on Land<France with the Greatest General in recent History> We also left in our wake, hordes of undeveloped Nations with no real Goverment and ended up a rather poor and itty bitty splotch on the map. The reason why all these Minor Wars erupt over the Earth is cause of that! Their original Masters didn't develop their economies so blame the USA! ROFL I concur with the fact that Brits were selfish bastards!

Step forward, you can add France, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Germany and Russia to that! Italy just got formed to late. All the rest of the Europeans are Minors themselves that have been dominated in some way by a Major Mentioned above! I wonder how many other Minor Europeans, say Sweden-Denmark-Switzerland-etc.. wouldn't have turned out to be Slave trading, Colonial Rapists like say Spain or Portugal if they had the Explorers and early technology and know how? In fact Scandanavia was doing that in Ireland when they moved in during the Viking Invasions! tongue.gif Slavetrading, raping the land and the women. SO it's evolution of the World?

Western Europe is virtually married to the United States, they owe us their freedom! Russia would've rolled thousand of tanks across your borders and you've been Re-Educated in Siberia if you didn't accept Stalin and Communism as your Faith! So thank us ;)

As far as Nazis, bahhhh.. The world is full of Idiots and DemiGods. Some worship Porn Stars as this Icon<at least the Porn Star usually isn't an evil World Conqouring Mastermind> America is the Land of the free, we killed the Brits twice, we killed the Spanish, Germans, and whole MidEast. We could conquor the World without Nukes cause the rest of the people in the World don't have the Guts to die for a cause! Maybe with the exception of the Russians and some fanatical Muslims<where is the UN and where is the Greedy Europeans who buy MidEast Oil when we need them?> Some are helping, but a majority are eating McDonald's and Frozen Dinners, partying in NightClubs and saying we're tired of Wars you do the fighting now USA. Why is Europe so wealthy? I wonder what percentage of the Gold in Europe comes from a Mexican or Peruvian Mine from the Colonial Era? The gold now is Black not Yellow is all that is different... and Europe isn't getting the amount we are but they were before, sounds like jealousy to me tongue.gif

I can't wait till Iran goes Nuclear and Drops a big fat one on Istanbul for Turkey aiding US interests overseas<1 Mad Shi'ite is all will take behind that button, with long arms to reach both keys> Then you'll Jump up and say, NOW WE'LL FIGHT! Sort of like WW2 ;)At least the Czechs had guts, they probably would've done more damage than the whole French and British Army outside of their defensive Line! tongue.gif

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Oh one last thing. I see a lot of friends, countrymen off to Korea, Iraq and Afganistan, I live off the most Powerful American base in the World for Airborne Proffessionals. The guys that fight in Band of Brothers for instance! Market Garden, D-Day!

They go over to protect you and Democracy every day, and they could get Nuked, Gased or shot. Tens of thousands, Hundreds of Thousands and ultimately Millions. My Dad included, his Dad, on and on and on. I am going to say from no on, protect those Koreans they are thankful for you. Protect those Iraqi school children they're thankful for you. Protect those poor Afghan Woman, they get to wear makeup, they're thankful! and read books! But those Euros, a Majority of them, they hate you! Don't lift a finger for them, unless they swear support<and they'll do it when they're out in the KillZone in real Combat> cause they're only interested in themselves

The World is a WarZone and we're not perfect but some of us here are fighting for you. China would take Tawian without us. North Korea would take South Korea without us! We protect and serve the World as a policeman that I hate to say it has a better track record than the UN who really should bare the grunt. I've had to pay thousands out of my wallet for your freedom, cause my taxes got raised cause you Euros are selfish! Get your Equipment out there and do it EurOwn Style but kick some Evil Dictator Butt! Hell, Tell the USA to get the heck out and clean up your own Colonial border crap... Iraq would take Kuwait and Saudi without us. Bin Laden would turn the MiddleEast into a Extremist SuperPower with ten thousand Nukes without us and you Europe would be in much closer range than the USA. Anyone ever read the famous European Nostradomus? Well, odd isn't it around this time MidEast Rises, Madmen with Turbin comes up! Talk about Prophecy

I think some in the World have become too sedated by their Little Worlds. Europe is going to be 'yesterday' China is going to be Tomorrow. They work harder! and for Pennies

The USA will not be their tomorrow for you and then you will have to fight and die for your Freedom, Like William Wallace. Maybe some of you should admire the Scotts, they got Cohonas!

[ September 02, 2004, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Liam ]

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Your feeling your oats. It's hard not to be angry with Euro's so complacent and snobby. Sitting back criticizing everyone else and not lifting a finger to help. Great examples: Korea, Taiwan, Kuwait. UN troops couldn't stop a pack of dogs from raiding a chicken coop. It makes me think that all the good men of Europe were killed off in WW2, and the only ones left are the sons of misfits and girly-men.

We from Southern California greet you!

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JJ,I apologise for getting off topic again, because that's what I'm about to do.

This was it :mad: ,This son of a misfit and a girly-man cannot believe that anyone can have such prejudices(or whatever you call it,I'm to offended and angry to be minding my language right now), so you will no longer be bothered by my 'ingrateful' complaints(I'm sorry, so you helped us in WW2, please go on and kill whoever you like, I mean we are supposed to be nothing more than some slave states after we WON a war, right?)

It is absolutely RIDICULOUS to say an entire continent is 'old'. What do you think?, that all Europeans are going to be born demented with beards?The whole 'Europe is old'-thing was invented by the current(helas) US government because we refused to help you in Iraq

And btw,Liam my country(Belgium) was neutral upto WW1 and had neutrality as a strict policy upto WW2, so we weren't dominated by any major country.

I would also like to remind you that the US joined those wars out of self-preservation and not because they gave a damn about those poor Koreans,Vietnamese or Taiwanese.

P.S.: we DID have troops in Korea.

I will still buy SC2 but will not join in any discussions anymore except if I really need to know something.

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Dad's Uncle fought in Belgium as a BEF and ended up in Dunqurque<sp> ;) another generation back at Verdun! Sure about dozens of my ancestors sit in Belgian, French Cemetaries, dying in those trenches for you! Not including the American ones I don't know of

I'm Half European 1st Generation American! I see the flaws in spitting on the USA! Where is the mutual friendship in spitting on the Oil Master of the Middleast who were angry they had to downgrade to just 1 Maid after the Gulf War in Kuwait? All those Kuwaitis were in Egypt partying while my Dad was catching Gulf War Syndrome in there protecting your freedom. Don't care how he got it, or if oil interest was in mind. Belgium fought Dutch, why the Dutch fight they didn't want to lose their area of interest, Lowlands! Essential Populance and Factories that was a long time ago! Still hatred there, bad blood. Someone from there should understand conflict and the complexities of wrong and right in war

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@Roosevelt --- Dude, the reason you're anti-American, is you probably wanted the Nazis to win. Have you ever talked to a South Korean? They are the most thankful people around for the efforts of the United States interceeding for their freedom. North Korea is the garbage dump of the planet, South Korea is a thriving Democracy with FREEDOM.

My Grandfather fought Gerries in WW-1, Uncle K. fought Nazis in WW-2, Uncle C. fought Japs, Uncle G. fought Koreans, Uncle H. & Uncle G. fought VietKong, two friends against Panama, 2-cousins & 4-friends in Desert Storm-1, same cousin is in Iraq now. My Uncle J. & a few relatives were thrown in a concentration camp while traveling to Romanian during WW-2.

You know what? You won't understand what it's all about. I'll tell you: Freedom, freedom of religion, freedom from religion, economic opportunity, individual rights, etc. People in the is world, Hitler, Saddam, & many more want to enslave people. Enjoy the freedom, appreciate the fighters who did it.

"Oh Christ died to make man holy, let us live to make man free, His Truth is marching on......Glory, glory..." --- Battle Hymn of the Republic

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Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

@Roosevelt --- Dude, the reason you're anti-American, is you probably wanted the Nazis to win. Have you ever talked to a South Korean? They are the most thankful people around for the efforts of the United States interceeding for their freedom. North Korea is the garbage dump of the planet, South Korea is a thriving Democracy with FREEDOM.

My Grandfather fought Gerries in WW-1, Uncle K. fought Nazis in WW-2, Uncle C. fought Japs, Uncle G. fought Koreans, Uncle H. & Uncle G. fought VietKong, two friends against Panama, 2-cousins & 4-friends in Desert Storm-1, same cousin is in Iraq now. My Uncle J. & a few relatives were thrown in a concentration camp while traveling to Romanian during WW-2.

You know what? You won't understand what it's all about. I'll tell you: Freedom, freedom of religion, freedom from religion, economic opportunity, individual rights, etc. People in the is world, Hitler, Saddam, & many more want to enslave people. Enjoy the freedom, appreciate the fighters who did it.

"Oh Christ died to make man holy, let us live to make man free, His Truth is marching on......Glory, glory..." --- Battle Hymn of the Republic


I'm sorry, I know I said I wouldn't react anymore but this is just too funny.

JJR, you don't know **** about me, I am neither anti-american or pro-nazi.

If you ask anyone who knows me for longer than one hour wether I'm one of both, they'll tell you that I'm probably the last person in Belgium who still has some faith in the US, and I HATE nazis, I can't understand why you don't realise that by blindly supporting your government, you're doing exactly the same thing that brought the NAZI's to power in Germany.

I don't get you JJR, you say your family fought against the confederation during the civil war and against the NAZI's during WW2, so why do you sound like a confederated fascist(now it's my turn to insult people)

@liam, and you don't think any Belgians died in the threnches??

Since we seem to be using our ancestors to win this discussion: My great grandfathers both survived the threnches and my grand father fought in the army in 1940 and afterwards joined the resistance together with my grandmother

And I also see the flaws in spitting on the US,I wans't doing that, I was defending Europe, have any of you actually been there??

Did everyone look like 'the sons of misfits and girly-men'??

p.s.: No, Rambo ,I haven't spoken to any South-Corean, but I have some Iraqui neighbours, want me to go ask them how thrilled they are to be rid of Saddam?? hmmmm?

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@Rosey --- Dude, you hit the nail on the head! Euros don't understand what "good Nationalism" is. Yes, I'm a Nationalist, for freedom both economic, religious, etc. You Euros just don't get it. We wave the flag, for what it stands for, we don't throw Jews in ovens. Of course I don't know you, but I know what you type.

I'll be patient with you, I bet you're a good guy. It's not your fault you were born there. Work on your attitude, support our troops.

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JJR,I'm happy that I was born in Europe.

I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

At the moment I'm writing this, I am still shocked by your remark that we would throw Jews into ovens,That was 60 years ago, it were only the Germans doing it, and we are still paying the price for it.

That's why Europeans aren't as nationalistic as Americans, because we know that nationalism easily leads to fascism.

I don't want to insult you(anymore), But you need to know that I would rather have all of my teeth ejected than support your troops that have stopped fighting for freedom a long time ago.

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Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Somebra --- You talk "politically pretty" for somebody who probably has their parents Nazi stuff in the closet. Your relatives threw my relatives into camps (Uncle J. to be specific) & now you preach we're the bad guys.

That's why we don't care what Europe thinks.

Yeah, I do read the NT, read the last chapter about the 7 nations standing up for Israel.

Do you call everybody who doesn't agree with you a NAZI?
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The Belgian Empire was too late to get into the Colonial Race but they tried, do you think they held that title for good looks and do you think they were different than other European Nation that have left behind Weak Countries without a Goverment stable enough to Govern themselves? Undeveloped poor little unstable nations like Iraq that once was owned My By Majors, or twice or more times and left to their own devices. For the first time in awhile they have a nation that is actually sticking out the long haul for them and you critisize them? People just tune in too closely to CNN and BBC and make decisions based off of Scandals and New Reports.. Either that or another educated persons opinion of the Middle East

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The Belgian Empire?? :confused:

What empire??, We're a monarchy.

We had Congo,which is nothing to be proud of since we were actually worse than the French and the British in our treatment of the locals,before king Leopold died(finally, old bastard) that is. After that the situation became more human but still nothing to be proud of.

I think this nation you speak of is only interested in the oil of 'poor Iraq' and in getting their troops in the MidEast to scare the other Islamic nations.

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Leopold II (rules until 1909) creates the Belgian colonial empire.

You know that your nation took gains from Germany after WW1, and is partly to blame for WW2? You gained Colonies!

Iraq? Bahhh, we're getting oil from there humbug! I pay twice what I use to pay for Oil, I'm getting jack diddly. In my opinion we should take control of those fields to pay for the huge War Debt incurred During the 1st Gulf War that Many Euros and MiddleEastern Nations said they'd pay for!

You defend a Madman and dictator, Saddam Hussein in your anti-American statements.. You'd prefer he stayed in there and killed another 1 million or 2 Million<where is the proof if it was 3 Million> Iraqis? We killed what 20 thousand??? That was done during liberation from that Madman. You don't see the parrallels between him and Leo? You're not examining the facts you're just anti-American like most French Culture Nations are

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The USA's main mistake is not acting decisively sooner. Generally, we tend to be, if anything, too reluctant to take action in our national interest. A little history since 1979 alluded to earlier (Quoted from a recent speech at Pensecola NAS):


>In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979...

that alarm has been ringing for years.



>That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more

than 3,000 Americans were killed and maybe it was, but I think it should

have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been

buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll

over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.


>It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a

religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked

and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright

attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most

powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this

sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 23



>America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and

had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had

to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The

ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's

inability to deal with terrorism.


> America's military had been decimated and downsized/right sized since the

end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly

organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was

doomed from the start.


>Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and

killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her

citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.


>In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven

into The US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63



>The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.


>Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with

over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine

Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America

mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.


>Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is

driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.


>The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the

gate of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.


>Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a

restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.


>Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main

gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze

alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.


>Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we

watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list

and executed.


>The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when

they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic

bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing 259.


>Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying

to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.


>The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder.


>The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two

CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley,



>The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested

after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground

parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are

killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of



>The Snooze alarm is depressed again.


>Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in

Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.


> A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35

yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys

the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over

500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America

does not respond decisively.


>They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US

embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision.

They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to



>The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12

October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded

killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we

sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.


>And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans

think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong

they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose

to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.


>In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high

officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But

if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see

exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the

National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since



>The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we

have been in a war for the past 23 years and it will continue until we as a

people decide enough is enough.


>America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has been

changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice

to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the

snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.


> After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said "...it seems all

we have done is awakened a sleeping giant." This is the message we need to

disseminate to terrorists around the world.


>This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year this is

an AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children

in years to come.

I pray the "sleeping giant" stays awake with or without soft headed "support" from the those who think we can reason with terrorists and all "get along".

We better win this war and Europe had best hope we do too. As for most wars, the consequences of losing this one will be severe, Many Euros should know this from personal or recent historical experience.

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Wachtmeister, Precisely! This is a War! What the Europeans often do not realize! They don't see that Iraq has anything to do with the bigger picture nor Afghanistan. One nation was the home base of many of these terrorists. The other was misatken for having things like WMD, that is irrelevent in my theory. Many wouldn't have freed Iraq due to the unpopular opinion it would raise throughout the World. Nor indicating that two more nations just added themselves to the Nuclear World, Iran & North Korea<two extrememly unstable Nations that've been known for acting wildly in the past and are very capable of killing millions unprovoked>

I feel that Iraq was saved by a Terrorist upon his own people. I must say I feel that both Iran and North Korea should be forced to disarm! Any other nation researching these weapons should be pressured by the "World." Europe Sleeps, hits the Snooze button. The USA becomes less inclined to challenge these nations mobilization due to World Opinion. We are not perfect, we're just 1 Nation, where it the Help, no other nation is perfect. Swizterland even, the Great Neutral State, was a Nazi Gold Storehouse and Supplied Resources to Hitler.

Using a precognitive 6th sense! the Future:

2005: USA with their weak coalition leaves Iraq for good with their new President who is afraid of a popularity contest with the World. Terrorism runs rampant, a New Age of Terror that WORKs arises... It is now more Sinister though, as the Powerful Cells have gone underground... working towards getting Nuclear/Chemical/Biological technology to use against their enemies.

Iran Develops a massive Nuclear Arsenal in 2010 a radical Sha comes into Power. Decides that Isreal must be pacified.

2012: Iran and Pakistan Ally against a Mutual Threat. India and Isreal Ally as the USA pulls away from foreign politics

2014: After 20,000 Isreali Students die in a Nuclear attack by Radical Terrorists supplied by Unknown Sources, all talks of a Free Palestinian State and a Workable solution to the Religious and Ethnic differences between Palestine and Isreal Fall Down!

2015: India loses 100,000 people to a new Germ Warfare, a violent strain of SARs developed in an Iranian Chem Lab is indentified as the culprit. War is eminant...

2020: USA univolved, UN weak divided, Russia the only Border Nation attempting Recounciling MidEast.

2021: War!!! thousands of Nukes lob from 1 state to the other, Range finds their way to Isreal, They react, over 500 Million Indians Dead. Over 250 Million Muslims Dead. Other nations in the Region join in, Armageddeon for the World.

2025: It's all over, world temperatures change, the average Summer lasts only a Month now, Crop shortages. Millions die through theout World. Extreme temperatures kill tens of thousands in any Polar Region. People sneak to the Equator to escape the Cold. Seers, Religious Men, Philosphers predict an Age of Hell upon Mother Earth

Here I hear some opinions, people think the above impossible? I wonder, where they're sleeping in their comfort zone tonight. If they realize what effects one man, will eventually come to his back door. What is right and wrong and how educated is he on the facts

I live in the Nation where people I know were bloodied by Terrorist Strikes, rightout side of the World Trade Centers. It's here, The Future is Calling you, You're in 1929, Rise of the Brown Shirts, Nazi Party is comming for YOU. What do you do? You're doing what the average German citizen was doing, "Ahhh, they'll never make, just another political group. They'll come and go... Their strong arming techinque will not win over our Mighty society and ultimately nearly destroy a part of civilization!"

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Hey Roosevelt, I'm Belgian too !!

I always get off when rednecks start calling us nazi's! Especially Mr. Rambo, cos between playing golf and reading the bible, he's great at rap, the words just flow from his keyboard!!

And you know we, from THE BELGIAN EMPIRE, just love to throw jews into the ovens while listening to Puff Daddy!!

Hey Rambo, go watch some MTV, the backbone of your culture!


[ September 04, 2004, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: kurt88 ]

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Somebra --- You talk "politically pretty" for somebody who probably has their parents Nazi stuff in the closet. Your relatives threw my relatives into camps (Uncle J. to be specific) & now you preach we're the bad guys.

That's why we don't care what Europe thinks.

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@Rosey --- Time for you to take inventory, because you're way out in deep left field. I don't know what you do it Amsterdam, but it sounds like you're a little whimp jellyfish. I'm not surprised you comprimise with evil. That doesn't get any play here in the States. We enjoy cleaning up the world's problems. Saddam had to go & should have been done 14 years ago. Oh well, thank God that George W. Bush finished busy for the country & his daddy. The record books now show a nice big fat "W" (Win) for us. Iraq was done in 2-days. Saddam is gone, the world is a better place. The message is simple,"Either you're with us or against us". Our way of life represents freedom, economic opportunity, & kicking ass. You'd rather depend on the government for rules, off Big Brother for a paycheck, & sitting around in Amsterdam wathcing our liberal CNN.

Wake up, smell the coffee son. Saddam sucks & is out of the picture. So are those murderous sons too.

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