Bold Allied Attacks and Play Balance

[Cooper]

I have been following this game with great interest and like what I am seeing but I do have a question.

What will happen to play balance if the Allied player makes very aggresive moves during the beginning of the game?

Most (99%) of Axis players will invade Poland first. This means a sizeable number of German troops will be in poland during the first couple of turns. If the Allied player lands the BEF along with a purchased HQ unit (Monty) + french forces you have a sizable strike force that could thrust deep into Germany. I really don't think most Allied players will allow the Germans to take Poland, Norway, Denmark (and gobble up all those resources) the way Super Ted has and not make Germany defend their western border. Plus, if germany is forced to defend its borders rather than take countries Italy will be less likely to join the fray. Do the british start with little to none ground forces, can they not purchase a HQ until later or is this early stike option open to the allied player. I guess we will have to wait and see untill the demo comes out.

[Straha]

At first, I had the same thoughts. But as Hubert assured us that the game was balanced by PBEM, I guess this concern is already addressed. Most probably, you will not be able to buy that HQ early enough for the aggressive plan. Without the HQ, you will suffer supply problems and will not be able to advance deep enough before the German army turns around - in which case you're done as you lost your entrenchment levels by advancing over the maginot line. Btw this is your only way of invasion as long as you do not declare war on Benelux yourself ...

Straha

[Cooper]

Without a HQ (guessing from the importance of the HQ conveyed by Mr. Carter and Super Ted) it doesn't seem your units can do more than garrison. Any attacks made without them better have very limited goals or they will fail. You must not be able to purchase a British HQ untill later or such a strike would seriously unbalance play. That or a large number of german units to begin the game, enough for the attack on Poland and deter an Allied advance through western Germany.

[ May 07, 2002, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Cooper ]

[SuperTed]

Guys,

Britain starts with one corps on the island and 110 MPPs. To purchase an HQ would cost over 400 MPPs, requiring more than three turns to raise. Of course, there would be essentially nobody to lead, so the point would be moot.

France is in better shape, with 5 armies, 1 corps, and 115 MPPs. 3 of those armies are in the Maginot, where they can achieve an entrenchment level of 8. So, it would be best to have them stay where they are, leaving 2 armies and a corps free. This is hardly enough to strike fear in the heart of a German commander.

By spring of 1940, the Allies may be strong enough to push into Germany, but it would probably not be a wise move.

[pzgndr]

This is an interesting effect with the HQ units. In an abstract way, I suppose all countries start with at least a virtual admin HQ but France has no effective field HQ for conducting offensive operations and must develop one. That's OK. Also, aggressive Allied play early on should delay US entry. So even when you are able to make bold attacks, you probably would not want to.

[Hubert Cater]

Bold attacks by the Allies are possible and would be a part of the "what-if", but it's not to say that it would be easy. The current design considers that really nobody was prepared for war and really only the Germans wanted war, so to reflect the slight dissarray in the Allied camps, they do not start with HQ's (which has been alluded to can be very important to any offensive) and the Allies will require a bit of building up to get their house in order. The things that the Brits, French and Poles do have going for them is a combined air force comparable to the Luftwaffe, (but it is separated and difficult to coordinate like the German air units) and the French and Royal Navy are formidable.

Also consider the political consequences of aggressive actions by the Allies early on in the war and how that will affect the mostly pacifict movement that existed in the US at that time.

Nonetheless, like I have said before, there can be some interesting results with an aggressive and bold move by the Allies early on.

Hubert

[Mr. Clark]

Since the Allies have a strong Navy to begin with, it makes me wonder what would have happened if it was parked around Norway as SuperTed made his amphibious assault.

I suppose it would simply have risked it too early, but it would still be interesting to see.

Can't wait to play!

[SuperTed]

Originally posted by Mr. Clark:

Since the Allies have a strong Navy to begin with, it makes me wonder what would have happened if it was parked around Norway as SuperTed made his amphibious assault.

I suppose it would simply have risked it too early, but it would still be interesting to see.

Can't wait to play!

Mr. C,

I am playing a PBEM of the war too and my opponent tried that. After I destroyed a British battleship with my air and naval units, the invasion of Norway went without a hitch.

[Desert Dave]

SuperTed --

Did you not bring a carrier along to counter the German Air Fleet? The Royal Navy could at least match that tiny German screening force?

I am yet convinced that Britain could successfully counter an invasion, though, I have been wrong about so many things in my life, that I hesitate to assert this too vehemently.

I guess this is what makes face-to-face or PBEM so attractive.

[Desert Dave]

Mistaken again.

I meant to say -- where was your OPPONENT's carrier? In PBEM, you are not playing both sides, sorry.

[Mr. Clark]

Originally posted by SuperTed:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mr. Clark:

Since the Allies have a strong Navy to begin with, it makes me wonder what would have happened if it was parked around Norway as SuperTed made his amphibious assault.

I suppose it would simply have risked it too early, but it would still be interesting to see.

Can't wait to play!

Mr. C,

I am playing a PBEM of the war too and my opponent tried that. After I destroyed a British battleship with my air and naval units, the invasion of Norway went without a hitch. </font>

[SuperTed]

Originally posted by Immer Etwas:

SuperTed --

Did you not bring a carrier along to counter the German Air Fleet? The Royal Navy could at least match that tiny German screening force?

I am yet convinced that Britain could successfully counter an invasion, though, I have been wrong about so many things in my life, that I hesitate to assert this too vehemently.

I guess this is what makes face-to-face or PBEM so attractive.

IE,

As far as I could tell, he brought just the battleship. Of course, he may have had others who decided to head for home without facing the Luftwaffe. A carrier would have helped, but that is HUGE gamble for the British. If they take a pounding, their one corps defending Britain would be far too weak to stop the Huns.

For all practical purposes, the British have only a navy at the start of the war. If they are careless, they will find themselves in a precarious position. They need to keep the navy intact because that is what will prevent Sea Lion from succeeding.

[Straha]

Well, air attacks are dangerous for any navy, regardless whether they are actually started from a carrier or not (provided the right equipment and training). So, the RN intercepting in Norway has to stay out of the range of the unsinkable carrier called "Denmark".

The thing with carriers is that you practically don't need them in the ETO - unless you really have, as the Germans,"invasion US" in mind! :eek:

Straha

[Cooper]

Straha

The thing with carriers is that you practically don't need them in the ETO -

unless you really have, as the Germans,"invasion US" in mind!

The only thing is, as stated above, to protect your surface vessels from air attack when your fleet is outside the protection of land based fighters.

For the British, it is a bold gamble. Do you risk your one advantage (Royal Navy) to stop Germany from taking Norway? Are those resources in Norway that important to deny Germany? Or are those surface vessels that would be casualities in that attempt (successful or not) better served to help against the hordes of U-boats that will be attempting to cut-off England.

[Straha]

Originally posted by Cooper:

For the British, it is a bold gamble. Do you risk your one advantage (Royal Navy) to stop Germany from taking Norway? Are those resources in Norway that important to deny Germany? Or are those surface vessels that would be casualities in that attempt (successful or not) better served to help against the hordes of U-boats that will be attempting to cut-off England.

If the game will succeed in letting the player *feel* the strain and conflict involved in decisions like these, it will be a real hit!

Straha