SC2 this, SC2 that, SC2 speculation only!

[Glez]

Everyone can start a "Wishlist" for SC2 and speculate as much as they can, however I would like to hear an official response saying if we will or will not be getting a SC2.

Maybe some insight on the ideas intended on being incorporated into the game. How about an "official" thread by Hubert stating whether we should expect SC2 in 2004, 2005, 2006, or not expect it at all.

[jon_j_rambo]

"2nd that emotion" --- Motown jams classic hits.

Hubert --- What's the deal?

[Iron Ranger]

I'm no internet guru, and I don't have any sales figures. But I get the feeling that the total number of units sold has not been huge. The message board has the same 20-30 regulars and finding a game on the Oppoiansts forum can quite hard some times. If a game sold the world over, to see the same two dozen people playing IP all the time is somewhat sad. Bottom line if the sale are not there SC2 will not be produced.

[Panzer39]

Well seeing that it never hit store shelves, small sales figures should not be surprizing. SC2 needs to be on the budget game rack at wallmart! Maybe it could win over some of the millions of people who buy the deer hunter games.

[ August 28, 2003, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Panzer39 ]

[Shaka of Carthage]

Mr H has responded numerous times about the status of SC2. What is the point in asking the same qustion over and over?

[J P Wagner]

Well at least I can't be accused of again being the one raising this Phoenix Question...

[JerseyJohn]

SC2 Threads remind me of the old prison joke about lifers telling the same jokes so many times they assigned a number to each and instead of telling it they'd call out it's number.*

As a matter of fact, I think we even tried that at some point, giving each suggestion a number. Wonder what page that's buried on and what the Thread was called?

Good to see you posting JP --. I think by now the Phoenix is dying of exhaustion.

* In case there's anyone who hasn't heard this ancient relic, first found in hyroglyphics on a wall in Egypt, a new inmate sees everyone laughing heartily everytime one of them calls out a number. He asks the guy next to him and is told about the system. Opting for immediate popularity he screams out a number and the place falls silent. Baffled, he asks his only friend what he did wrong and the guy says, "Some guys just can't tell a joke!"

[ August 29, 2003, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[jon_j_rambo]

Yes, you guys are right. SC probably sold ~500 copies at the most. Minus costs & time, not very much...$5000 profit. I make that in a month & I'm a mid-level guy. SC-2 is just another pipedream. Hubert probably hasn't even decided what he wants to do.

Bottom Line: If Moon & MadBouncer spent half the time on making/selling games then reading/locking threads, they'd be rich. It's all about sales, not jerking off to my posts. Get your lazy internet reading body down to Babbages, Software Etc., CompUSA, & Walmart...take the purchasing agent golfing & buy them some beers...that will get you a nice fat purchase order.

If the Shoe fits, wear it,

Legend

[ August 29, 2003, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ]

[Night]

I have to agree with rambo, I think he was only toying with the idea to keep people around the forums and game hoping to boost sales and possibly make an SC2. I don't think they could have sold that many games, but more then 500 I think.

[Shaka of Carthage]

I'll agree with Rambo's point that its about marketing the product. I don't think its as simple as getting a retail outlet to place a purchase order. JerseyJohn made the point in another topic, that unless you are a computer user, you probably will have never heard about SC.

Even with a retail product, being great just isn't good enough sometimes. There was a computer game called Empire of the Fading Sun that I picked up on a whim at Frey's for $5 (clearance rack). The game itself blew me away. It had everything, including the ability to modify. And with five (5) humans playing different sides, I was in heaven. But it never caught on and basically just faded away. The role playing side of it though, was able to make money, so is still around.

Making money, selling computer wargames, is not an easy thing to do.

If I was in a Battlefront marketing meeting, I would push the suggestion that we ignore the traditional sales approaches and look at the more unconventional methods. Kinda like what boardgaming does. Get a booth at the conventions (doesn't have to be big or fancy), promote the demo and offer the ability to purchase the CD. Offer some sort of deal with the Hobby shops, where they spend a couple of hundred dollars and they have copies on hand for people who don't want to purchase over the Internet. The key thing being that those outlets are not there to sell the product, they are there to promote it... in other words, word of mouth. You could even get real fancy and set up a small LAN and let people play TCP against each other. Maybe even a small "tournament", where the winner gets a free copy or $100 or something.

The retail days of wargames are over. You've got to try other approaches.

[pzgndr]

The German version of SC is already being marketed by Most Wanted Games and will soon be released by GMX Media. I think Most Wanted is still working on French and Spanish versions, but I don't have any of those details. And there's the improved graphics package that Battlefront will make available one of these days. As I understand it, SC activity is still keeping Hubert busy even though we aren't seeing it here. We can only imagine what total worldwide sales of SC will eventually reach.

Once all the ongoing SC work is wrapped up, Hubert does intend to start development work on SC2. There's no word yet on what the new game will include or not include. We'll all have to continue being patient.

[jon_j_rambo]

The earliest SC-2 would even be available, prediction: Fall 2005. When the product is getting closer (near some bit release milestone), then "leaks" will be provided to hype the game. That time period is anywhere from 6-12 months before it comes out.

[Curry]

I think Battlefront is putting most of their efforts into their new Africa Corps product. I think the Combat Mission series is their bread and buter product and SC is the poor sibling. I read the reviews of of both games at various PC magazines and SC only recieved fair reviews while the Combat Mission recieved very high reviews. Also I found the Combat Mission games in the stores where I live while SC was no where to be found. I only found out about SC though the add in WWII magainze.

I really enjoy the game. Some of the flaws even make the game interesting to play. I would hope that Battlefront would get the product out in a better manner - there are many more people like us that would enjoy this game and play the game on the internet. I think this game is a great game to play via PBEM and would catch on with many people.

[J P Wagner]

I think Hubert has mentioned that he is basically a one man operation so it cannot be expected that he will come up with a new game anytime soon..I admit to being spoiled by some other companies and unfairly apply the same here...I am a big fan of the baseball management sim, OUT OF THE PARK BASEBALL (OTTP5)..I have bought each version for the past 4 years and the designer Markus Heinsohn has always released the new version right before the baseball season...I have to learn that not all companies can work at the same pace...still a little bit of news wouldn't hurt...

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by Shaka of Carthage:

Mr H has responded numerous times about the status of SC2. What is the point in asking the same qustion over and over?

It is a kind of prayerful petition... almost, a plea.

Nothing wrong with that, and it has the added advantage that it very often... works! (... just ask the many many Surgeons who had given up hope on a chronic case, only to suddenly! discover that the patient has... opened shut dusty eyes and... arisen up! singing!)

We are bing-banging about, a little bit...anxious... to see some kind of reassurance, if not... hard development data.

Well, as Mr Bill has reminded, the very LATEST word is that Hubert DOES intend to make SC2, and so we should try to be... patient.

I'm no internet guru...

And so, no individual on this Forum is either, but... as a GROUP, we could minister to Kings & Queens, provide hopes and dreams to folks flustered and forlorn... here, there and everywhere!

The thing is, Hubert has already said that he is working on a more complex game engine.

That he INTENDS to make SC2.

He has STATED this, it is not fanciful speculation.

And besides... perhaps, he is an old throw-back, a naturally inventive guy who simply likes, and indeed, is even a... fan and fanatic ... about WW2 GS games.

Perhaps he is interested in making the very best WW2 GS game ever! Which some of the most storied names in war-gaming lore... have... NOT DONE.

Think of how many people recently clamored! for access to Clash of Steel even though it's been out of the loop, for what? 8 or 10 years!

Look how many people fret and rave about a truly messed-up, muddled-up product, HoI.

There is still plenty of interest in WW2 GS games, some of whom, I will agree with rambo & shaka, ... don't yet know that they ARE interested!

WHEN Hubert delivers a beta for SC2, and I am guessing... early next year, THEN there will be many who never, ever remembered that they had some... doubts.

Sometimes, and it ain't all that often I will agree, somebody does something... simply because he or she... LOVES the work.

That money isn't everything, that being the one who makes the PENTULTIMATE computerized WW2 Grand Strategy game... takes precedence over, even, getting 3 square meals a day.

There ARE such people.

I also believe, and call me... faithfully superstitious, I don't care, but that is the situation... we have here.

[Hippy777]

Make that ~501 copies sold as I just ordered mine today. And I would have bought a copy a long time ago if I would have known about the existance of the game.

You'll have to excuse me 'cause im new here and all. But what the one guy said is true in that if the game were more available I'm sure that more people would have bought it.

I have friends that I still play Axis and Allies with (On the PC) its an old cludgy game but it's what we like. Games like this always get shoved back in the closet of the internet and then people wonder why more copies aren't sold... There are lots of people out there who would love to play this game who just aren't the types to ever go to the right places to discover its existance. Sad really. It's a vicious loop in that the sales dictate it not being put on the mainstream and the fact that its not on the mainstream dictate it's sales. . Thats when the publisher has to come up with innovative ways to market and advertise the game. . .

But I of course would love to see a whole world version in the future. That would be uber cool.

[Moon]

Originally posted by Curry:

I think Battlefront is putting most of their efforts into their new Africa Corps product. I think the Combat Mission series is their bread and buter product and SC is the poor sibling. I read the reviews of of both games at various PC magazines and SC only recieved fair reviews while the Combat Mission recieved very high reviews. Also I found the Combat Mission games in the stores where I live while SC was no where to be found. I only found out about SC though the add in WWII magainze.

I really enjoy the game. Some of the flaws even make the game interesting to play. I would hope that Battlefront would get the product out in a better manner - there are many more people like us that would enjoy this game and play the game on the internet. I think this game is a great game to play via PBEM and would catch on with many people.

CMBO has appeared in stores 3 years after its original internet-only release. This was no accident. BFC has been founded as a way to get good games to wargamers without the pressures, risks and expenses of a retail distribution, and it will remain this way. We want people to come here and purchase from us, as this is the only way to ensure that Hubert gets what he deserves from each sale. Only after we feel that we have reached the majority of our audience, do we plan to enlarge the distribution base by going into retail. We have done this in Europe already - SC is available in Germany currently, and soon other European countries (as well as Australia) will follow. As for the US, it might still take some time. I don't know why people keep thnking that SC isn't selling well - fact is, that it's doing great, unfortunately a high number of customers doesn't seem to make it to the forums for some reason.

So SC is in no way getting a worse "service" from us than CM. And as for SC2 - well, we like to play our cards close to our chest. Others might prefer to announce games and make spiffy websites years before they're released, and that's ok, but from our experience it's better not to make promises one cannot hold. Just as a reminder, it has taken 1 month from the announcement of SC to its release roughly...

Martin

[Amona]

Just a detail from the sales rackets in Germany:

SC -german version - is there in every great shop in the shelves in big numbers, and was sold out after one week in the city I live in. THere must be thousands and tenthousands sold in Germany< in the last few weeks.

The only bad news: The German version isnt compatible with the original one. I have both versions, so it doesnt matter for me, but most German players who get the game now will not be able to play with us here.

Interestingly the german 1.07 does cooperate with my old 1.06beta version, but not with the 1.07 patch.

Anyway, here in Germany there is very great interest in the game since it is on the shelves.

But many people dont order via internet or look into forums.

I am member of a community of German wargamers, and altough I mentioned countless times to countless people that SC is a great game and worth getting, nearly no one ordered it.

Now, the same people have bought it without delay and are enthusiastic about it.

So, from my experience I second Rambos opinion that the game belongs on the rackets in supermarkets and so on.

[KDG]

I'd place a wager that sales are at least 5000 copies. Hubert has said he is working on SC2, and he has always been a man of his word. While we would all like the game in the next couple of months, I see a year wait at least. Maybe we will get lucky and get and additional editor for $10 or something in the next few month.

[Night]

blah a year is a really long time esp. since it has already been so long

[jon_j_rambo]

Moon --- Thanks for posting.

Retail in America --- I bet getting product to the shelf (Walmart, Babbages, CompUSA, etc.) & actually making a profit is a tough racket. Everything depends on one's goals. Shelf space is bought by corporations in grocery stores. I sold/delivered Faygo soda pop while in college & we didn't have a chance of getting "end-caps" or "real-floor-space" against Pepsi & Coke. Why? Not becuause our product was bad, but because Pepsi & Coke would literally buy the "space" on huge contracts. I bet Walmart is the biggest circle jerk of a company getting an item thru. I hear they (Walmart) forces manufacturers to wait 6-months before they pay them. 6-month delayed consignment is a joke. I'm sure there are always exceptions, but not for one computer game from a small group of developers.

Babbages & CompUSA are interesting enough. If there is such thing as a strategy wargame, it sure won't be a new game in the release section. Those "new" displays are stuffed with first-person-idiot-games. Playstation games are King at the Malls, batttles between John Madden '04 & Microsoft's wannabee-football dominate the entrance. To find a wargame in Babbages/CompUSA you have to go dumpster diving. I remember the Christmas season when Panzer General II came out, huge displays were at the check-out line (that's how I bought that). BestBuy has a large store & is probably the best place to shop for computer games. But after it's all said & done, I bet very little of the cash is passed to the developer.

The only way I found out about SC, was an old wargame opponent called me when he read about it on some internet review & said in looked like the boardgame 3R.

I'm sure WW-2 SG wargames sell good in Germany compared to the USA, thus the German retail push by battlefront. Lots of wannabee Hitlers who could have done it better. While in the States you have a bunch of fat-ass stupid teenagers who want first-person-shooter-idiot-games, & their Step-Parent (one who actually forks out the cash) isn't going to find SC on the internet, let alone walk farther than 10-feet inside a major retail store.

Rambo

P.S. If you like Truth, buy a King James Bible