Which side has the advantage . Your opinion.

[Ron]

Interesting responses from some people, I have to admit I am suprised. I really think some of you guys are overlooking something 'basic' playing CMBO.

What Ghost of the 90th said regarding learning how to use infantry and arty bears repeating. No 'set of rules' can be written down to describe this, it comes from playing. If you want to do well with Americans or British or Germans then play them exclusively.

You need to learn fire and manuever, and yes the 'pathetic' British Rifle Infantry can accomplish this quite fine, using combined arms. It isn't necessary to have uber-infantry at all. And yes as Cpl Carrot said terrain plays a vital role in this. Learn how to use it. There is no map that is inherently impossible for the Allied player, some may be more difficult and require more effort on your part if facing a certain German force, but to immediately say it is impossible is a 'losing' atttitude. You cannot count on 'sneaking' your infantry into killing positions, move them undetected to your jump off positions then attack! Pressure, disrupt, dislocate your opponent and force him to react. You are giving up the initiative (and the game) if you let the battle devolve into a relatively static fight, especially if facing a German opponent who is content to just 'sit there'.

A Panther is dominating the map from a HD position on a Hill? The ignore it for the time being and concentrate in other areas. One tank cannot cover all places at the same time. When the time comes then smoke it to screen your manuevering forces. It is foolish to attempt to attack it frontally and/or in a piecemeal fashion, you are playing into your opponent's hands doing so. Engage it on the flank with multiple AFVs of your own. How? By attacking and breaking/disrupting his line elsewhere to create that situation. You really have to be thinking 'ahead' and planning/coordinating your forces to achieve this. It won't just happen. If it is necessary and your opponent simply parks his tank, then arty the bugger, he will move it or suffer the consequences. And again you cannot simply count on the arty taking it out, you have to be actively engaging to create those flanking shots as stated above.

Ron

Edit: Yes VT arty is simply devastating. More than an equalizer, a game winner when used properly, ie as Ghost referred 'mastering' Infantry/Arty.

[ April 23, 2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Ron ]

[Dandelion]

Indeed Ron, bask away. :cool:

It's an attitude thing really, leading the British. I think I just havent found the right attitude to succeed yet.

Considering the fact that they won in the end, I find it amazing to study the number of desperate actions, defeats and near-defeats that brought the British to Berlin. They actually manage to win and still appear the underdogs. One gets the feeling that they advanced by a series of heroic last stands.

There was a catchy popsong on this theme recently wasn't there? "We'll be singing, when we're winning :I get knocked down, but I get up again, you're never gonna keep me down..."

Regards

Dandelion

[Dandelion]

Ron, you'll find the "Lee" debate on infantry movement more elucidated in his "What do most of you do" thread.

As for the situation he describes, I still cannot really see a solution.

Lee writes:

1. There are three enemy tanks, not one, overlooking the objective area and approaches to the same. He says there is no possibility of covert flanking movement on the map. His attempts to blind the tanks by buttoning them have failed, so the tanks can observe his every move in the open. The terrain is described as naked. In fact as a 400 meter open stretch of land.

2. Enemy troops are holding the objective area, thus the enemy has no reason to move either from this place or from the hill.

3. Lee has no artillery, thus the absence of suggestions of smoke. Lee has one Baz team left as antitank asset.

Given these parameters, I cannot really see how the fire and movement basics of his infantry will solve this situation regardless of nationality.

But I guess Lee could send you the file so you could show him how

Regards

Dandelion

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by Dandelion:

...also, I'd like to chime in on the "how do ppl use VT incorrectly" question above.

To pick up on this question, the main way one might use VT arty incorrectly is by not buying it. Some people don't buy it because they feel it isn't worth the extra money. But believe me, it is. Both the 105mm and 155mm US VT is just plain murderous, and murderous on both infantry and tanks. Tanks can be killed, immoblized or gun damaged to a much greater extent with VT (esp. 155) than with plain arty of the same caliber. How to use it? Direct your VT arty at known enemy positions and sit back and watch the carnage. The best targets are ones including both infantry and tanks or other vehicles. HTs and open topped AFVs like Marders die like flies under VT arty.

My favorite type is the 155 US VT, then the 105 US VT, then the Brit 5.5 VT, but any VT is good.

In general I would agree with the point made above that the later CMBO months are more favorable to the Allied forces than the earlier months.

[lcm1947]

Excellent and very useful tips and info from all. Thanks that's what I was hoping for some good suggestions and comments. It does seem that I will take Dandelions advice about playing scenario's as that makes sense about being more realistic and all. Also I will stick to playing the American's as suggested as that also makes sense and I really really do like playing them. I'll certainly have to try the VT arty as it sounds like the thing to buy. Dying to see what it can do and my opponents eyes when it starts dropping all over him. Teach the Bugger right. Dandelion as far as the Pbem game goes I was telling you well I have surrendered and my opponent agreed with me that it was a lost cause. OK so armed with these new ideas and a song in my heart I will go forth and wipe up the maps with the German's. Oh my poor opponents.

[Redwolf]

I think most ladders came to the conclusion that the British has the edge, but only when used by experienced players.

The 95mm Cromwell can kill a Panzer IV/70 from the front with HC if you get it near enough to have a good hit probablity and it is obviously very good against infantry In CMBO the hit probablity of low-velocity weapons like the 95mm is still pretty near those of real AT weapons. The British report once quoted here that says that it has 1/6th of the hit probablity at 1000 (or 2000?) meters is not what we see in CMBO. Most importantly it is cheap. Nobody wins reliably wins CMBO games with tanks > 120 points (except for Panzer IV/70 and Jagdpanther). But the Cromwell requires an experienced player so that its ablity to rush from cover to coer is actually exploited. An inexperienced player will have his Cromwell killed no matter how fast it is.

The wasp is nasty in the extreme. Again, in the hand of an inexperienced player it will die quickly from 20mm autocannon fire.

The artillery pricing in CM has a very definite edge towards the larger caliber modules. The large the caliber the more enemy kills you get for the same purchase price. The British modules all come with fewer ammo and are cheaper. So for the points you are allow in a 1250-1500 points game you can by a large-caliber British module with few ammo or a medium-caliber US module with more ammo. From a cost effectivity standpoint the larger module is far better (exceptions apply: if you need a module for smoke, if you can have VT etc.).

The 3" mortar can be turned into an effective anti-tank mortar. A top hit will always kill any tank. You reliably get a top hit with the shots you have in one turn if you take a veteran 3" mortar and a 1+ combat HQ or a regular 3" mtr and a 2+ combat HQ.

The M5A1 with its .50cal is essential to raise your victory point level after you have won a game. It is perfect to hunt crews, empty spotters and other leftover high-value infantry. When playing on a latter this can make a huge difference in the long run. of course the US have that, too.

Overall, the British in CMBO are the prototype of a fast maneuver force. If you are experienced enough to "smell" uncovered routes you can close in and kill smaller parts of the enemy force before he can concentrate on that spot.

The cover weapons are also good, the 17pdr for stationary and the 6 pounder with a decent change for "T" rounds for transport duty are exactly what you need for this style.

You can also play games with the German guns which are usually hidden at the game's beginning. After a while you can sense whether the enemy guns are hidden and you have a "free" turn. You can also make him unhide his guns by driving a valuable target into LOS with prescheduled backing back into cover so that the next turn he unhides the gun, your valuable unit goes back into cover a second later and some useless unit of yours is dancing around in LOS.

[Ron]

Not sure where you are coming from Dandelion, no offense was intended in my posts to you or anyone. Just a reminder that the thread and first post explicitly stated "your opinion" on this matter and that is simply what I have expressed. Take it for what its worth.

Ron

[Dandelion]

Ron,

I was not offended. Reading your post, and then re-reading my own post above, I can clearly see why you think I was, and I wish to apologise.

My text looks argumentative and quarrelish to me now, and I am not sure how I conceived this goblin. The intent was to be camaraderish and relaxed, challenging you to solve Lee's impossible problem or to concede defeat, and as you can see it was written immediately after my other post above it, which I think in a more detectable manner relays how tired and giggle-ish I was at the time.

I think I'll not use numbered lists or jokes about sending files when in the future I wish to come through as a friendly person. It just seemed practical at the time.

I am natively German and Swedish speaking, having roots, family and history in primarily these countries. Dandelion is a translation of my mothers maiden name, Löwenzahn. First name is Tommy and Maurice (Moritz to Germans) in that order. But I use them alternatively myself and my circle of friends and family do likewise.

Now we have been properly introduced

But I am uncertain as to whether my background can explain how it is that I am slowly losing my grip completely on not only contemporary English, but even basic cultural understanding of English communication.

Since moving East and working with EU or domestic issues, English has fallen into disuse, and I never meet any British anymore. Used to encounter them regularly and always took the opportunity to have a chat if I could. But years go by, and suddenly I find that I don't understand part of the texts posted here (lexically I do, but not the real meaning), and you are not the first native Englishspeaker to find me unpleasant when I did not desire it. My language is becoming increasingly archaic and intermixed with German grammar and clause elements.

Time for a trip to England I guess. Haven't been there for years. My wife is a hopeless Anglophile, able to qouote any Shakespear play like running water - and she's a Jane Austen fan as well. She always talks about the English countryside. But we've never been there together. Looks like a good idea to do something about it.

Regards and again my apologies

Dandelion

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Dandelion:

Time for a trip to England I guess.

Give me a shout when you come over, I buy you a pint to toast the demise of General Krafft

BTW - mefinks Mattias posted the other day (if his member number is 357). Doesn't answer his email though.

[Ron]

Hi Dandelion,

You are a good man I can sympathize with your plight. My wife is Mexican and while fluent in English, misunderstandings occur all too frequently!

Anyways I was talking before from the perspective of a battle just begun. Regards the parameters and situation you described, I would begin withdrawing off the map posthaste, so no different than you

Ron

[lcm1947]

Ron I do agree with you about Dandelion being a good man. Few people I've seen or met on this forum that's as polite and nice as Dandelion. The only other one that I can think of is Pvt. Ryan. He moved on I guess since then but he also was an extremely considerate and helpful individual. Don't get me wrong lots of nice and helpful guys including yourself but these two just stand out - well besides myself don't you know?

[Edward Windsor]

Originally posted by Ron:

A Panther is dominating the map from a HD position on a hill?

Aaah, a chance to relive my finest Combat Mission moment - killing a kitty with my A/C...

For what it's worth, in the last few months I've persuaded quite a few people to invest in the bundle pack.

Therefore I'm currently playing a lot more CMBO than CMBB, as it's easier for them to get to grips with and (controversially?) more "fun".

This means I'm almost exclusively playing the Allies (what is it with the Germans and their sexy hardware?) and have recently changed my mind on the relative merits of Axis.

I've come to the conclusion that, if played with a little thought and care, no side has a significant advantage - generally the best player will maximise their chances and win.

If both competitors are fairly equally matched, my battles tend to hinge on one turn where a mistake or stroke of good fortune decides the outcome.

Whatever, it's a great game.

Teddy

[Dandelion]

Ron and Lee, my sincerest thanks and my return of compliment to you both.

Mattias posted? What can have annoyed him enough to break radio silence, one wonders (I mean what thread?).

I'll start a thread presenting my England tour, once I've sprung it on my wife here and gotten some concrete plans, and call out for all the pleasant Battlefront people who happend to live in vicinities. She'll be wanting to see a lot of that much-spoked-of countryside with stone villages and manors. And vicars and women with polo sweaters and men with Landrovers, and horses and such. And rain of course. But a beer with Andreas is of course basics in any decent England trip, so we'll have to stop by London too.

There's no massive popular anti-German sentiment in the UK due to the various political rows is there? :confused:

Your

Dandelion

[Edward Windsor]

Originally posted by Dandelion:

There's no massive popular anti-German sentiment in the UK due to the various political rows is there? :confused:

Not that I've noticed and even if there was you shouldn't let it affect your trip.

It is my misfortune to spend a good proportion of my waking hours in Leicester and even there life is remarkably harmonious, carrying on much as before - grim and gridlocked.

Teddy

[Bruceov]

how do you properly use vt ammo?

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Originally posted by Bruceov:

how do you properly use vt ammo?

1. Point a barrage in the direction of the enemy.

2. Let the Fire For Effect roll in.

3. Watch lots of enemy die.

Sidenote...don't bother with the FFE if the enemy crunchies are protected by buildings or the enemy units are mainly fully enclosed AFV's that are already buttoned.

Regards

Jim R.