japinard Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I'm working on a scenario and need to know of the following countries in 1939/1940... Did they lean more towards supporting the Axis or the Allies? (actually kind of looking at their support stance during the entire war too). Baltic States Bulgaria Denmark Greece Hungary Norway Iraq Portugal Romania Sweden Yugoslavia I've already determined the following (non-superpowers): Canada - Allies Finland - Axis Hungary - Axis Ireland - Allies Belgium - Allies Netherlands - Allies Poland - Allies Romania - Axis Spain - Axis Switzerland - Axis Turkey - Axis Note: I Know many of these were neutral, but I'm loking at their helpful tendancies (like Switzerland helping the Germans more than the Allies even though neutral). Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.J. von Arnim Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 here is the result...as far as i know Baltic States Bulgaria - axis Denmark Greece Hungary - axis Norway - allies Iraq - allies Portugal - axis Romania - axis Sweden - axis Yugoslavia - allies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japinard Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Excellent. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Denmark, who cares. They're a non factor in life. Greeks were probably split 50/50. Most those Euros were Nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Trapp Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 here we go again....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Most those Euros were Nazis. Man, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwormwood Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Originally posted by jon_j_rambo: Denmark, who cares ... Most those Euros were Nazis. You should care, and stop insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary definitely Pro-Axis. As far these being puppet regimes I'm not sure. Switzerland was Neutral along with Sweden but both made cash off both sides. The Swedes sold the Allies weapons too! Norway hated the Axis from what I recall. Denmark never mattered, they were too weak to fight. Spain was Definitely Pro-Axis, it was supported Pro-Fascist in their Civil War by Italy and Germany. As far as Greece is concerned I definitely see Pro-Allied sentiments there... Not unlike Yugoslavia. I'm sure they would've fought and they did Canada was 100% French and British... Iraq had their dislikes of the Colonials so there was mixed sentiment<but back then they were a bunch of Sheep herders> Belgium and the Netherlands? Hmmm, lots of Nazis there but since they were Adjacent to Uber Anglo/French Alliance where do you think they leaned? And No! Not all of Europeans were Pro-Nazi. There were definitely percentages, and get this one of the largest one was in the USA. The Bund<sp? was an American Pro-Axis organization They boasted Hundreds of thousands of Members [ January 22, 2004, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Liam ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curry Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 What about all those Pro-Axis Nazi's in the USA, especially in Idaho! : Seriously, before 1940, there were pro-Nazi's, Facits would be a better name in many of the countries of Europe, as well as in the USA. In some countries very very small, in some perhaps a significant minority,. But one can hardly make a statement, that most of those Euro's were nazi's. Oh man, I like Rambo, but sometimes his statements like this make the USA stero-types seem true that only red-necks live in Idaho. As far as Denmark, Hey dont Knock Denmark, spent two great weeks there with a good friend. Great ciy Copenhagen. Sometimes they even come up with a good Football/Soccer team too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 The Baltic States were increasingly coming under the sway of Moscow, so as a result they would have to be counted as Allied. What the population really thought was another matter... I'm not convinced about Yugoslavia though. Remember that it is a Pro-Allied Coup that brings them into the allied camp in this game. If my memory is correct the previous government was more pro-Axis. I would put Greece down as Allied, as it was wary of Italian expansionism. Romania, Hungary and Italy are all interesting cases because although they fought on the Axis side, they were all friendly and helpful to Poles escaping their country to the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Ireland is another questionmark. I'm sure the country was divided. Those who stood by the IRA would be against the UK thus pro-Axis. Others would lean towards the US once they entered the war. Oh man, I like Rambo, but sometimes his statements like this make the USA stero-types seem true that only red-necks live in Idaho. Couldn't have said it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I am not sure of the Yugoslavs at all. A very divided Nation, even if they went Pro-Axis would they have contributed much? I doubt it... Look at them now. Hardly United Idaho I'm not too sure of, but I'll bet their mostly Ethnic German. To call them Hillbillys is kinda stereotyping however. As they're no more hillbillys than most of the Ukrainian farmers<which made up a huge amount of Russias population> and they didn't like the Axis or the Russians. One has to remeber People like Rambo are exactly what one needs. When you have Say the North and South, during the Civil War. you Got 2 extremes, and as you get closer to the Middle you get the Conservatives... Without the extremes you'll never accomplish much. Anti-Nazi was definitely needed, Hitler wasn't only Nazi. Germany was Evil... That's undisputed Finland would've definitely entered when they saw an opportunity. Russians had invaded them in 1940 And yes the Russians were hogging the Baltic Region.. Maybe not a bad Idea? Giving an extra zone for the Germans when they invaded hehehe but I doubt Stalin intended it that way... Baltic Peoples are more Germanic than Russian... Wasn't Gothic the very architecture created in one of the Baltic Republics, I think so the concept at least... Don't underestimate the the spread of Germanic influence. For most of them though it wasn't an ideology it was re-conquest after the Poor Division of Europe after WW1 that mattered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 The IRA were active during the 1940s, but with nothing like the scale of activity that had been seen at the end of the first world war, or was to be seen again in the 1970s and 80s. They weren't that big though, having split in the early 1920s between those who were happy to accept a division of Ireland and those who were not. The IRA that was still around in 1940 was made up of those who hadn't accepted the ceasefire with Britain, and they were mainly active in the north, rather than in the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalmatiaPartisan Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Yugoslavia was member of small Antanta pact(signed 1921 I think)with Romania and Czechoslovakia(formed mainly against Hungary).This country was much on allied side and with good relationships with Greece but also trying to keep its neutrality at all costs as a result of its stupidity . Under pressure of axis Yug royal goverment in March 1941 signed pact with axis which was broken by General Simovic and demonstrations in Belgrade organised by communists. So I d say in 1939 - 65% allied, 35 % axis in 1941(when attacked) - 55 %: 45 % Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzeh Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Horthy was hardly a puppet. He just thought the Germans would strongarm his enemies into making concessions. The Hungarians were not a puppet until late 44 when the Germans snatched him. The Romanians switched sides, and to stay neutral they would be forced to fight Hungary for Transylvania. The Bulgars weren't too interested at all in the war, and they joined axis but never really fought. The Finns were more or less fully independent of the Axis, and fought because they had a mutual enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 The Finnish would never fought without a good chance of winning. Perhaps seeing Germany go at it was enough and they wanted what they'd lost back. Can't blame though they had men serve in branches of the German Army too. They had help from Germany overall so you have to say that they were Axis and would've become Axis because the Russians had peed them off. As far as the rest of the Balkans the borders drawn up after WW1 were never very concrete and to this day there are disputes. Perhaps something the Axis took advantage of aye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Here we go: Baltic States(Axis)For all three states, neutrality was the highest concern. Only after threats from Russia did they seek German help. Unfortunately for them, Hitler had already signed away their independence in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact of 39 (Lithuania was not actually part of the original deal, but was thrown in later in exchange for 2 more Polish provinces). Germany was seen as a possible protector against Soviet expansionism, but it was hopeless. However, once Barbarossa was in gear, they did tended to think they were fighting for independance, and hence provided a large amount of volunteers for anti-partisan duties. All in all, these countries were definitely pro-Axis. Bulgaria(Axis) 100% this state was in the Axis camp, although NOT for ideological reasons in the least, as compared to Romania. Promises by Hitler of terretorial aquisitions in Greece and Yugoslavia led the government into alliance with Germany. Remember, they had lost the terretory of Salonika to Greece after World War I, as well as territory to Serbia. Denmark(Axis) It conducted more than 80% of it's trade with Germany, half the people were of Germanic disent, they were the first and only german 'protectorate' (higher status) than any other occupied region. They barely fought, they barely resisted until late 43. They're pro-axis if not by choice. Greece(Allies) Italy was bent on getting territory from them. Regardless of what the ppl thought (many were pro-axis), they were victims of aggression and looked to the UK for help. Hungary(Axis) Admiral Horthy had always been seeking to be his countries' saviour, and Hitler was seen as the method to do this. After WW1, Hungary lost of a considerable amount of territory on it's fringes, territories like Ruthenia(Czech) and Transylvania(Roum). The populace was very nationalistic as well, and these sentiments led Hungary to eat up parts of Czechoslovakia, Romania, and Yugoslavia. Hungary traded upwards of 90% of it's output to Germany. In his favour, though, Horthy was not anti-semitic at all, and Hungary protected its Jewish population well until 1944. Portugal(Allies) They feared a resurgent facsist Spain with allies like Hitler and Mussolini. They looked to the UK and USA for support. Iraq(Axis) Made a British colony in 1920. By 1941, militant nationalists were clamouring for independance and took up arms. They were crushed however, and hopes of Rommel crossing the Suez were just that. Sweden(Axis) They allowed numerous German troops through their territory and refused the Allies the same right. They conducted almost all their trade with Germany. Did they have a choice? Like most Axis allies (or satellites if you prefer), they were more or less bullied into compliance. Ireland(Axis) Only once the war had swung against Hitler did the Irish start to grudgingly support Britain. The Irish were supplied by german subs in WW1, and were still itching for the return of Northern Ireland when WW2 broke out. They assumed they would regain their island once Britain was defeated. (The Eagle Has Landed, great movie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Forgot one, Finland Finland was not pro-axis at all. They tended to think they were fighting their own private war against Russia. Finns refer to 1941-1944 as their 'Continuation War' after the Winter War of 1940. The Germans were allies because they fought the russians, but for nothing else. The Finns even refused to advance close to Leningrad because that territory never belonged to them. They were pretty much only seeking the territory they had lost previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pochenko Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Yes, I agree that Finland wasn't a pro-axis country, in fact, they had diplomatic support of England and France against the Russians. Before June '41 the Soviets were pro-axis (really they were pro-soviets and they thought that Germany was a great ally) and after that they entered on the allies hemisphere. Spain was a different thing... Franco was so coward that he didn't support they former friends (axis) instead, he asked Hitler for some territories in North Africa in exchange for his help. But at least the axis made an infantry division in Spain "LA BRIGADA AZUL" Greece wasn't pro-allied, Hitler was going to make a deal with the greeks when the silly Benito told him that Italy was "conquering" Greece. Switzerland and Sweden had axis tendancies (they were the open route to the world for german's products since the British blocked all axis trade)........................................... GUNS N' ROSES RULES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Okay, lets discuss the facts,"Nothing but the fax (facts)" -Bruce Willis in DieHard II. In 1940, Denmark was a non-factor. I could have taken over that country myself. All one would do is put a swastika on their shirt & drive the speed limit to their Capital Government building. Then receive their acceptance papers in the name of Adolf Hitler. Why was it that easy & no resistance? Simple, they were Nazis themselves. Either you're for something or you're against. Nobody is going to stand in front of God (the True & Righteous God) and say...oh, I wasn't really a Nazi, I had no choice...Oh, I sort of believe in Jesus, let me into Heaven despite my actions...Gee, we had no choice but to accept Adolf Hitler. Get a backbone, become a rebel, be a Legend. 1940 Denmark was a non-factor. Was Costa Rica, Chile, Bahamas, Congo, Kenya, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Antartica, etc...were they factors? Next, 2004 Denmark is a non-factor. Yes, it might be cool to visit, drink a brew, & check out the sights, but they have no significance on the World scene. For that matter, Europe is a non-factor, they sit out on major issues & only care about themselves. Bill Gates invaded Europe with his Windows program. America is King, enjoy following our lead. Back to 1940's...okay, who was a Nazi then? All these countries people loved Hitler, they were all European countries, thus the term "Euros". Sure there are exceptions, Shindler's List, Warsaw Getto, French Underground...but Hell (Heaven), somebody was shooting at my Uncle in the Battle of Atlantic. Now lets talk Boise, Idaho. Do we invade farmers with tanks, gas Jews, & call ourselves the MasterRace? I don't think so. We have a population in Boise of only 160,000. Over 50,000 of those people "eat off two HUGE technology companies". Did you know that? We also have one of the Ten Richest families in the WORLD: The Simplots. That's right, potatos. At least we create food. During World War II, that family perfected the freeze dried potato process. Have you ever eaten McDonald's french fries (free fries since the War in Iraq)? If yes, you've eaten Idaho. We Americans (at least most of us), believe in freedom, that's why our ancestors got the Hell (Heaven) out of the war ridden Europe. You guys need to chill out. So don't build a bunch of tanks, invade farmers, then say..."Oh, there's no Nazis in Europe". Well, maybe that's a half-truth, the remnants went to Argentina, West/East Germany somewhere, or ate a nice poison pill before the Numerberg Trials, but I sure wouldn't argue to the True & Righteous One..."Oh, everybody was doing it". Rambo says think for yourself, Rambo says type for yourself, Rambo says alot of cool stuff. >>>>>>>>>>> OUT [ January 22, 2004, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 In 1940, Denmark was a non-factor. I could have taken over that country myself. All one would do is put a swastika on their shirt & drive the speed limit to their Capital Government building.LOL LOL LOL LOL i seriously fell over laughing from my chair... Rambo, you crack me up. Xcept for that slander that all Europeans were Nazi's (i think you're joking to get a response from the ppl on this board). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.J. von Arnim Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 @rambo: can it be that you tend to generalize ? all europeans have been and are still nazis ? man, that sucks ! and things like "europe does not matter..." - this is sort of the same phrase hitler used back in the third reich: we are the master-race and everything else does not count. got it ? nothing against the us - but what should i think of a country where people are not allowed to smoke or drink alcohol on the streets but everybody age 9+ carries a gun ? ...and where it is still allowed to march through the streets carrying a swastika and shouting "sieg heil" (hail victory)... well, long live your freedom ! [ January 23, 2004, 03:57 AM: Message edited by: H.J. von Arnim ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 It´s better to ignore some things rambo is saying. He likes to offend ppl and to say straight his opinion also if its generalized. I think he knows best the difference but he would never say it. @rambo play more games and do not smack ppl....meanwhile i know you well, so i dont care what you are saying, i just care your gameplay. By the way if Austria would have been on the map it would be pro Axis for sure trough the Anschluss, but ppl were 75/25 pro allied. I know this is a thing you wont believe but it´s the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.J. von Arnim Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 dragonheart: i ignored his postings where he tries to offend people for too long now - i had to do something now and i know that austria was pro-axis concerning the government but not the inhabitants (as you said)... enjoy your weekend ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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