Kanonier Reichmann Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 After very bad experiences under ver. 1.05 of the game in using the ambush command in conjunction with tanks I'm wondering what other players experiences are with this order under ver. 1.12 are? I haven't bothered using the order with AFV's due to always seeming to get knocked out first when doing so in the past but have others been able to use the command effectively of late? The reason for asking is due to the loss of 2 of my tanks in 2 seperate PBEM games where I crept up both AFV's to a position where I could get a shot at the known enemy tanks & promptly lost both to first shot kills. Could this possibly be reflecting the use of the ambush command by my opponent where the area I moved to has, in effect, been pre-sighted and therefore gives an advantage to the ambusher. I know common sense would tell you that this would be the case but my experiences have been the opposite (at least under the old version anyway). Any thoughts? Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: Could this possibly be reflecting the use of the ambush command by my opponent where the area I moved to has, in effect, been pre-sighted and therefore gives an advantage to the ambusher. Regards<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, I did this in a PBEM a while back. I used it with a 251/1 to nail a Greyhound on the first burst, but it was very short range, like 100m. It's the only time in recent memory I've used ambush with a vehicle (a practice I try to avoid). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 I dont see why you would want to use Ambush for AFV's. Since they cannot be effectively hidden, they remain visible to everyone, and using the ambush command, risk getting KO'ed by enemy forces coming from another direction. I just leave my AFV's to have a narrow line of fire without too much exposure. It's about as close to an effective ambush as one is liable to get without simulating fully hidden camoed tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B: Yeah, I did this in a PBEM a while back. I used it with a 251/1 to nail a Greyhound on the first burst, but it was very short range, like 100m. It's the only time in recent memory I've used ambush with a vehicle (a practice I try to avoid).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> How on earth did you kill a Greyhound with at 251/1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted July 18, 2001 Author Share Posted July 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B: It's the only time in recent memory I've used ambush with a vehicle (a practice I try to avoid).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Interesting your comment about trying to avoid the practice of using the ambush command for AFV's. Can you perhaps expand on why? Bad experiences under ver. 1.12 or earlier? Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 I meant to say 234/1. I've had no bad experiences myself. I've simply read enough of others to know not to risk it except in very particular situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Hmmm, an interesting topic, and a command I haven't tried on tanks. A theoretical advantage to 'ambush' with a tank might be curing the problem of your tank rotating to target some Kubelwagen to his far left and being outgunned when the waited-for enemy tank appears to his right? I'm going to have to do a test on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tools4fools Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 I had my experience with the ambush command for tanks as well. Situation was the following: my opponent tried to outfalnk me in a QB with a lone Tankdestroyer. I had a tank and a infantry team covering the flank and easily had a sound contact with his tank. the TD moved into the cover of a lone farmhouse. I expected the TD to move on next turn coming into LOS of my Stug IV right in front of the building. That's why I placed an ambush marker there. The TD came drove right over the ambushmarker as I expected it, but being on move fast my Stug was obviously not fast enough to target and shoot the tank. The TD came now closer and closer to my Stug on its right, out of LOS, but still being a sound contact. Now my stupid Stug crew obeyed their order and turned their gun back on the ambushmarker. The TD soundcontact came closer and closer until it came back into LOS of my Stug some 25 meters away at 45°. If it wasn't in a war it would have resulted in a traffic accident. Needless to say that the turret of the TD turned faster than the Stug and...boom, no more Stug. How could those guys ignore this sound contact? They had seen the TD and knew where it was (approx), coming closer and closer towards them, but no, they just ignored it and back to their orders. Real stubborn Krauts. My opponent told me afterwards that he never knew that I had a Stug there and that he was completely surprised. I only use the Ambush marker now if I do want that the tank does exactly stay on that target. Like when a tank will be moving into LOS within a few seconds but far away there is some infantry already in LOS. Not using the ambushmarker the tank might engage the infantry first and might be reloading right when the tank gets into LOS...but even in such a situation I prefer to order a move command towards the point where I expect the tank to appear. Most likely it will not engage the infatry this way, but if something happens - lets say the enemy tank stops and never gets into LOS - my tank won't sit there and aim for the ambushmarker for the rest of the turn and ignore all other threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted July 19, 2001 Author Share Posted July 19, 2001 Good points Marcus, thanks for that input. Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jKMkIII Posted July 19, 2001 Share Posted July 19, 2001 Isn't that what could be expected? You told your men to look at specific point (ambush marker) Enemy drove there, but your men didn't see them (only sound contact and tanks DO not shoot at sound contacts because that can be 100m off When they saw it enemy was in wrong place and your men concentrated their attention to ambush marker and got killed. I think your problem was that your Stug was on FAST MOVE and thus couldn't see pretty much anything. How I use ambush marker for AFVs is that I move them to place and almost always do not give ambush command while on move and after they have moved place I want to setup ambush I give order. If am moving to hull down position where I want to place my AFV watching I can set ambush marker before move to place (usually only few meters left at this point), but then also my AFV will have LOS to ambush area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnifeForkSpoon Posted July 19, 2001 Share Posted July 19, 2001 Uhhh . . . jKMkIII, I think you might need to read Marcus' post a little more carefully. His Stug was not moving, he was talking about the enemy TD. [ 07-19-2001: Message edited by: KnifeForkSpoon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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