Tris Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 . . . may she rest in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted December 30, 2000 Author Share Posted December 30, 2000 Tell you what, go to the site and just try to access the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 I just saw news of this over at Shrapnel's Steel Beasts forum. It figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted December 30, 2000 Author Share Posted December 30, 2000 I'll be mildly interested to see if this model can work. I know it can for the reason it already does in some venues, but I doubt that it will work on a site of this kind. There simply isn't material there of such specific and necessary nature to persuade me (or likely many others) to pay each month for access. Consider this: as it stands now the site uses reviews as loss leaders for the discussion of its boards. So, you read the review, then when you try to click on the link to jump to the forums you're told it will cost you x-dollars and cents per month for this access. Would you willy nilly sign up? If so, please tell me what's going on "in there" these days. [This message has been edited by Tris (edited 12-30-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Consider this: as it stands now the site uses reviews as loss leaders for the discussion of its boards. So, you read the review, then when you try to click on the link to jump to the forums you're told it will cost you x-dollars and cents per month for this access. Would you willy nilly sign up? If so, please tell me what's going on "in there" these days.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That is not entirely accurate. All of their content will be subscription based, not just the forums. Having read the reasons why, I can well understand why they need to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggi Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 They still have a free section. There's too many free gaming sites to pay to read thier reviews. How many of us actually buy gaming mags now? In the past yes but today with the internet with DSL and cable you can download a demo in 5 min? Reviews are not the best way to learn about a game anymore. The demo is the clearest way of knowing if you like the game. There are so many places to get info, why pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniperscope Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 Bad news for me. I have been going there for years. But to pay for news that if I just do a little research I can get elsewhere for free? No dice. I understand why they are doing it, but in my opinion the content is not worth a cost for a consumer. It was fun while it lasted. sniperscope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Fauster Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by iggi: They still have a free section. There's too many free gaming sites to pay to read thier reviews. How many of us actually buy gaming mags now? In the past yes but today with the internet with DSL and cable you can download a demo in 5 min? Reviews are not the best way to learn about a game anymore. The demo is the clearest way of knowing if you like the game. There are so many places to get info, why pay?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, I like to read print gaming mags- sometimes when I'm going to bed, sometimes in the early morning shower trying to wake up. I thought about bringing the computer into the shower with me, but I was afraid I'd drop it and scratch the tub. Too bad about ComabatSim though. Part of me hopes it works for them, the other part would hate to see this develop into a growing trend of some sort. Personally, I can't help but think it was just a case of poor marketing. That many hits monthly and they couldn't generate enough ad revenue? Couldn't get an investor? Hell, talk to the DoD and get the Army to advertise there or co-sponser it! Oh well... Gotta wish Doug and Gail the best. It's been a great site. [This message has been edited by Von Fauster (edited 12-30-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte99 Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 The print operations need to change their focus: less news, more analysis and commentary. Same phenomenon that's transforming all the print industry. But in the meantime, combatsim can go to hell. Their decision to go for a subscription fee represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the market. ------------------ "Arms are my ornaments, warfare my repose." - Don Quixote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailz Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von Fauster: Too bad about ComabatSim though. Part of me hopes it works for them, the other part would hate to see this develop into a growing trend of some sort. Personally, I can't help but think it was just a case of poor marketing. That many hits monthly and they couldn't generate enough ad revenue? Couldn't get an investor? [This message has been edited by Von Fauster (edited 12-30-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Banner ads have been taking it on the chin with the rest of the dotcoms. Investor community finally clued in that "click throughs" weren't translating to dollars. (page hits don't mean didley if it's the same bunch of surfers. 14million hits?? That wasnt' 14 million different users... it was the same niche market everyday.) I can't see the 'subscription' idea paying off for combat.sim (for the reasons listed here and on Usenet) I personally hope this leads to a bit of a 'net degeneration... more communication/information and less spam... sites going up because it's something you want to do or were interested in... staying focussed. Combat.sim was an excellent site, I am going to miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumvir Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 And of course, by going to subscription, it does cream skimming by picking only that segment of the market which is _really_ interested in sims and willing to pay $3.95 to read reviews. This implies that the quality of discussion on the board may go up. As to whether that segment is big enough to sustain CombatSim is a different story. But it doesn't change the fundamental; that site owners need to start generating profit streams from _somewhere_. CombatSim's owners should probably do what other subscription based services (such as the Economist or the WSJ) do; offer minimal teasers which demonstrate the quality of writing. And probably they should open up the forums to read-only viewing. But they're going down the right road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailz Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Triumvir: And of course, by going to subscription, it does cream skimming by picking only that segment of the market which is _really_ interested in sims and willing to pay $3.95 to read reviews. This implies that the quality of discussion on the board may go up. As to whether that segment is big enough to sustain CombatSim is a different story. But it doesn't change the fundamental; that site owners need to start generating profit streams from _somewhere_. CombatSim's owners should probably do what other subscription based services (such as the Economist or the WSJ) do; offer minimal teasers which demonstrate the quality of writing. And probably they should open up the forums to read-only viewing. But they're going down the right road.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm all for generating profit, but trying to sell something that is available for 'free' in scores of other sites doesn't seem to be the right track to me. (Unless it is markedly superior... which it isn't) The best part of the internet is that it's a 'buyers market'... there are scores of gamesites, and hundreds of talented writers/reviewers and dozens of forums. (Not including UselessNet)... that don't cost you a penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 Another "New Coca Cola" idea. Right, like I'm going to pay for information and downloads I can find elsewhere for free on servers that don't take hours to move? ...and another one bites the dust. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 Yeah, 3.95$ per month to read a forum I visit maybe 2-3 times a month is not going to work for me. I wish them well. But imagine this. Suppose BTS were to charge 3.95$/month to read and post here. Would you? Me, personally, probably not since the newsgroups are just as viable. Same with CombatSim. The newsgroups contain a lot of the discussions that go on in the CS forums. I doubt their business model works, but I hope for their sake that it does. ------------------ Jeff Abbott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 Like others, I wish Combatsim well since it was my first and primary website resource for about two years (Janes WW2F and EAW). However, that site's real resource was the input on the forums of other users, many of them extremely talented and dedicated. Combatsim itself produced average content that was not particularly timely. I don't think you can get people to pay for forum participation over the long run when there are so many other places to participate for free. Frankly, a lot of the user participation on Combatsim's popular EAW forum became daily OT chit chat among a few forum regulars who had lots of time to kill. Wading through it for useful content was a drudge and a turn off. By contrast, CM's forums are actively moderated and controlled, which makes them more useful for people seeking topical info. Of course, as Combatsim noted, a site like CM is associated with a game producer who has other ways of making income. Combatsim was a good central user community for certain games, but the real content can be replaced by surfing the game web rings and checking other forum sites. ------------------ Only the Lawyer knows what Evil lurks in the minds of men.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 I wouldn't either. As much admiration as I have for BTS, I don't need to pay to visit this forum, or any other for that matter. First, like you said, there are a wide variety of completely free forums out there, (and wherever one charges, another will take it's place for free just to get the competition business), secondly, while once in a while handy basically I find that forums are more of a place of entertainment than anything else. Lastly I'm not about to contribute to the handout mentality of paying for something "other" than a product. Would I pay more for a good product. Absolutely. It comes in a box, runs on my PC, and does something for me. But, access to the meanderings, gossip, and comic relief routines of what one could most aptly describe as a drunken soccer match, which is basically what my experience has seen most of the time with regard to forums in general, just isn't cost essential. And it wouldn't matter to me if all they wanted was a 32 cent stamp. Now, the idea of say Tourney House, asking for money on a one time fee for access to goodies beyond their free service is another thing, and doesn't bother me at all, they've left the decision up to me. Likewise, asking for money to conduct online server access for multiple player games (Warbirds or Kali), doesn't bother me either. Again, the decision is up to me. But asking for money so I can join in a typical discussion which I can most likely find at the local bar, nah, no thanks. Sorry to rant. This type of business bothers me a great deal. It's the old P.T. Barnum trick of charging a nickle for access, then hearding folks right on through to the exit. No me. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 Well, I think we will see more of this in the future. The sites that survive, and remain no-charge, will likely be ones like this BBS. In other words, a site which provides a service to user base that has largely bought something not directly related to the web content. In our case, the vast majority of the people using this BBS purchased one or more of our products. The costs of running and maintaining this BBS therefore get deducted out of the revenue from games, not from the content itself. The problem with content only services is that there are few ways for them to get revenue. Banner ads are a joke, IMHO. Tailz summed it up pretty well above. Banner ads used to be fairly cheap, and therefore were attractive because even though click-through sales were rather small, it was still worth it. But as costs have risen, and overhead has outstripped the small revenue from banner ads, some sites have tried jacking up their prices to compensate. Unfortunately, the return for the increased expense is simply not worth it, at least in our experience. This means there is a crisis looming. Popular sites, like Combatsim, become a victim of their own success. They are probably shelling out a few thousand dollars every month for bandwidth and other direct expenses. Then there is their time on top of all this. People like to think that the Internet is "free" but it is not. SOMEONE has to pay for the service. If it isn't the customer, then it is the provider of the content. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this lopsided and unprofitable relationship can't survive over the long haul. And to echo what others have said in this thread, if I can find 20 reviews for free, why would I pay to read a 21st review? If there are free forums (USENET) to ask questions, why would I pay to do this instead? Personally, I hope that Combatsim can make this work for them. Clearly the alternative is for them to close up shop, which benefits nobody. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 I forgot to add one important tribute to Combatsim -- I first learned about CM in a preview on Combatsim, and bought the game when it first came out after registering here. The rest, as they say, is history.... ------------------ Only the Lawyer knows what Evil lurks in the minds of men.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurballMagGP Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 I found it quite comical, actually. And I dont believe they are shelling out thousands of anything monthly to keep their site up. If they are, its just time to move to another server. I got enough of a kick out of it yesterday to announce that my site, www.furballmag.com was going to go "Pay Per View". Its incredibly absurd to charge for something offered freely on multitudes of other sites, and my guess is that they will realize this soon enough. They might even return the $15.80 in revenue they generated from their folly. who knows ------------------ -gp FBM's CM Resource Center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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