infohawk Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 I've been playing CM for a while but I would like to start playing PBEM. Which ladder has the most users? Which one should I join? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ales Dvorak Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 "T-House" http://www.tournamenthouse.com has a great CM ladder and the most members. Easy to find a PBEM opponent there because every member is listed including whether or not they are presently looking for a game. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemx Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 T house is the way to go!!!!!!! Good ladder system just joined myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 I use Thouse myself Infohawk. It is a good site. Expect "Anything goes" play unless you specify conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infohawk Posted March 21, 2001 Author Share Posted March 21, 2001 Thanks guys... looks like tournement house is the way to go. What kind of bad things can happen if anything goes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Personally Thouse is the most user friendly CM ladder site I have found. Yobobo the owner is helpful and a nice guy. As far as anything goes play the usual I run into (used to run into) was OOB's that were Chuchill (152mm frontal armor) with a mix of British and US Airborne and Glider troops. King Tigers, JadTigers,Jadpanthers and Pershings abound as well. One of the newer tactics is the "Bum Rush" German SMG platoons in human wave attacks. Massive amounts of Flak guns at times may also be encountered. Let me also say that I have played about 40 games at Thouse and since I learned to be careful with setups and opponents I have had some very memorable and fun experiences there. I rate the site highly and browse it often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windopaene Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 For a less "gamey" taste, I suggest the Rugged Defense ladder. it's at http://www.rugged-defense.nl/cm/cm.htm Seems like a great deal of the players there use Fionn's Short75 or Panther-76 rules. which keeps out the KT's, Pershings, JadPanther/tigers. Course I'm finding out that a Panther and a couple of Hetzers can ruin one's day just as well as the ubertanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 That's an easy one - ALL OF THEM. duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Originally posted by Abbott: ...As far as anything goes play the usual I run into (used to run into) was OOB's that were Chuchill (152mm frontal armor) with a mix of British and US Airborne and Glider troops. King Tigers, JadTigers,Jadpanthers and Pershings abound as well. One of the newer tactics is the "Bum Rush" German SMG platoons in human wave attacks. Massive amounts of Flak guns at times may also be encountered... See Abbott, those of us who don't have a PHD in WWII history with an emphasis in the ground war look at what you wrote and say, "Uh...so?" I'm not putting down the grogs. In fact, I'd love to learn more about what units were used at what times and in what groups and how often these units were available. I think it would be fun to play something like this one time. I'd also like to try out Fionn's Short 75 Rule too. Still, I think it's funny when someone like yourself brings up these "gamey" issues as if there is a problem with this. The way I see it, you get what you pay for. The units are very well priced in this game. There doesn't seem to be any glaring disparity between a unit's assets and it's price. Therefore, each unit will have it's strength and weakness and it's up to the opposition to exploit those weaknesses. Supposed "gamey" tactics should easily be stopped by simply choosing to play on a map that will allow for the most amount of options for each player. Now, I can understand if you are playing on a flat map, that would limit each side's choices. That's why I never play on farmland or rural unless I'm looking for an all-out tank battle (which I hardly ever am.) By playing the standard village, modest trees, modest hills QB you have pretty much eliminated all of the potential problems you listed above concerning Ubertank dominance. Even with only a few small hills and some decent cover using trees or houses, a player's options are wide open for what strategy they wish to use. Taking Pershings, Jumbo's, KT's, and JT's is not necessarily a good idea--in fact, it might just be a bad idea once surveying the land after purchase. Now, maybe you feel limited by using this way of setting up a map. I myself, don't. I have come over from CC2 where we made great scenarios using the same damn map every time with only having the power to change the deploy. By simply changing where each player sets up, we made each battle a unique one. Upon coming here, us CC players looked at this element of the game and thought we were in heaven. To have the creative freedom to make a map from scratch is almost unbelievable. So when I play a QB, and each map is different every time, I for one don't feel restrained by using the standard "Village-Modest" settings every time I play. Back to my point though...what this provides to the recreational player is a full range of possibilities while practically eliminating the supposed problem of Ubertanks taking over a battle. Forget about the historical accuracy of what the recreational players's unit selection would be and give me your analysis on whether or not this doesn't rid us of the "Ubertank Dominance" problem that so many people here seem to complain about. I realize this isn't an innovative solution. It seems to be a given to me so I'm wondering why it's not used more often. In addition to your comments on this, could you explain to me the problems you find with the Glider squads being used, the "bum-rush" German SMG platoons, and the massive Flak guns used in games with your opponents. I've only played a handful of games so far and all my opponents have used what seemed to me to be non-gamey tactics including their unit selection. Please explain these above terms you used and why they are used by gamey opponents. P.S.--I'm moving the Ubertank subject to it's own thread. I'd like to hear from others on their opinion on what I've said. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. [This message has been edited by Colonel_Deadmarsh (edited 03-21-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh: See Abbott, those of us who don't have a PHD in WWII history with an emphasis in the ground war look at what you wrote and say, "Uh...so?" I'm not putting down the grogs. In fact, I'd love to learn more about what units were used at what times and in what groups and how often these units were available. I think it would be fun to play something like this one time. I'd also like to try out Fionn's Short 75 Rule too. Still, I think it's funny when someone like yourself brings up these "gamey" issues as if there is a problem with this. The way I see it, you get what you pay for. The units are very well priced in this game. There doesn't seem to be any glaring disparity between a unit's assets and it's price. Therefore, each unit will have it's strength and weakness and it's up to the opposition to exploit those weaknesses. Supposed "gamey" tactics should easily be stopped by simply choosing to play on a map that will allow for the most amount of options for each player. Now, I can understand if you are playing on a flat map, that would limit each side's choices. That's why I never play on farmland or rural unless I'm looking for an all-out tank battle (which I hardly ever am.) By playing the standard village, modest trees, modest hills QB you have pretty much eliminated all of the potential problems you listed above concerning Ubertank dominance. Even with only a few small hills and some decent cover using trees or houses, a player's options are wide open for what strategy they wish to use. Taking Pershings, Jumbo's, KT's, and JT's is not necessarily a good idea--in fact, it might just be a bad idea once surveying the land after purchase. Now, maybe you feel limited by using this way of setting up a map. I myself, don't. I have come over from CC2 where we made great scenarios using the same damn map every time with only having the power to change the deploy. By simply changing where each player sets up, we made each battle a unique one. Upon coming here, us CC players looked at this element of the game and thought we were in heaven. To have the creative freedom to make a map from scratch is almost unbelievable. So when I play a QB, and each map is different every time, I for one don't feel restrained by using the standard "Village-Modest" settings every time I play. Back to my point though...what this provides to the recreational player is a full range of possibilities while practically eliminating the supposed problem of Ubertanks taking over a battle. Forget about the historical accuracy of what the recreational players's unit selection would be and give me your analysis on whether or not this doesn't rid us of the "Ubertank Dominance" problem that so many people here seem to complain about. I realize this isn't an innovative solution. It seems to be a given to me so I'm wondering why it's not used more often. In addition to your comments on this, could you explain to me the problems you find with the Glider squads being used, the "bum-rush" German SMG platoons, and the massive Flak guns used in games with your opponents. I've only played a handful of games so far and all my opponents have used what seemed to me to be non-gamey tactics including their unit selection. Please explain these above terms you used and why they are used by gamey opponents. P.S.--I'm moving the Ubertank subject to it's own thread. I'd like to hear from others on their opinion on what I've said. Col_ take a chill pill. I was asked a question and offered my opinion. Geez, how long do you hold a grudge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Well, for a great non-gamey bastard ladder, albeit a bit hard to get into, try joining the Dogs of War. I forgot the URL, check the CM webring. WWB ------------------ Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say, Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Col_ take a chill pill. I was asked a question and offered my opinion. Geez, how long do you hold a grudge? Abbott, I'm not sure how you misinterpreted my post but I was not being sarcastic or anything like that. Maybe I gotta start using those smileys more. I was simply trying to take a problem you mentioned that other people have also mentioned before, and start a new subject about it. I'd like to know what other people do to combat this supposed problem with Ubertanks on the map. I've noticed that I never have this problem when playing and it's probably due to the fact that I don't play the flat land maps. So, I just thought I'd throw this out for discussion. That's all. By the way, I was wrong before when I alluded to your cheating. It was my first game and I was confused about something which led me to believe the worst. So no, I don't hold a grudge against you. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailz Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 www.thegrognards.com (haven't met a gamey b@#tard there yet.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 Originally posted by Windopaene: For a less "gamey" taste, I suggest the Rugged Defense ladder. it's at http://www.rugged-defense.nl/cm/cm.htm Seems like a great deal of the players there use Fionn's Short75 or Panther-76 rules. which keeps out the KT's, Pershings, JadPanther/tigers. Course I'm finding out that a Panther and a couple of Hetzers can ruin one's day just as well as the ubertanks Agreed. I must say that in 29 games on the RD ladder I have NEVER EVER encountered a Jumbo, Pershing, King Tiger or Jagdtiger that was NOT in a canned scenario. In other words, I saw exactly one KT, and a couple of Pershings in Elsdorf (I should also point out that only in a few of those games me and my opponent actually made agreements on limited unit choice/gamey behaviour beforehand). I've seen SMG troops only twice in 29 games. Never seen arty heavier than 155mm, and that was me, using it once. I've seen exactly one Sturmkompanie (also used by me. Never again!). Furthermore I have not seen AT guns heavier than 57mm, no Pueppchen, no RCL's. One jeep IIRC. No in-appropriate heavy guns, nothing. Apart from the occasional desperate 'pistol-wielding' crew/spotter rush (which are actually welcomed, and warmly too. 'Lead-hot,' one might say) I find the RD ladder a rather pleasant place to be. ------------------ If your enemy comes to speak bearing a sword, open your door to him and speak, but keep your own sword at hand. If he comes to you empty-handed, greet him the same way. But if he comes to you bearing gifts, stand on your walls and cast stones down on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-00 Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 If your a historic simulation minded person, that being defined as someone who likes using historically appropriate and plausible forces and tactics against likeminded people i would join either the grognards or Rugged Defense. Both of these sites have very good tacticians who'll give you a run for the money. If history isn't your bag, and your in it for the entertainment of no holds barred competition (albiet ahistorical) you'll be happy at Thouse. There are a lot of good game technicians on that ladder. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yobobo@tournamenthouse Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 You know what we need here? We need a ladder tourney. This would be fun, I can smell it. Something like 5 top players compete from each ladder. We all would agree on each battles params before hand and play a nine round Swiss deal. Would be one big punch up. Sounds fun to me? TournamentHouse.com Game Ranking Ladder Come For The Carnage, Stay For The Stats! http://www.tournamenthouse.com/CM/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 Infohawk, join both RD and TH. There are quality players/people on both who will give you good games. The likelihood of running into a gamey bastage is about the same on either. You pays your money, you takes your chances. ------------------ "Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change." -- Oddball "Crap." -- Moriarty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 I like to play with no restrictions on unit pick-up...it's funnier! To make the thing fair I always like to play 2 mirrored games, i.e. 2 battles with same parameters and reversed sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 Damn, but these "Your A Gamey Bastid, But I'm Not" threads seem to be proliferating out of control lately! The best solution (as I have learned after several bad experiences), is to discuss the game parameters with yr opponent before you start, and lay down the rules so everybody is in agreement. Can't we all just get along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 Oh, and Rugged Defense: Two thumbs up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Star Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 I've joined the Rugged Defense ladder with very good success finding quality opponents that give good advice with some enjoyable color commentary. By challenging some of the better players, I have had some great games (even if they did not go my way). As has been said earlier, the best way to avoid gamey players is to communicate ahead of time and agree on parameters for the match and to clarify what each other considers gamey. ------------------ "Act after having made assessments. The one who first knows the measures of far and near wins - this the rule of armed struggle." Sun Tzu - The Art of War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 I recomment the Blitzkrieg Club. ------------------ Keine Gefangenen! Visit my Combat Mission Sound Mods site! Scipiobase Join the Blitzkrieg Wargaming Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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