Slapdragon Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 That is correct. In my research on the Brazillian military in World War Two I just ran across an interesting fact. The M3 Stuarts received by Brazil from the US are still in service. In 1980 they were upgunned with a 90mm cannon and a more powerful engine. They are called "Frogs" (Perereca) in Brazillian service, and are considered main line tanks (but not MBTs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Slapdragon: That is correct. In my research on the Brazillian military in World War Two I just ran across an interesting fact. The M3 Stuarts received by Brazil from the US are still in service. In 1980 they were upgunned with a 90mm cannon and a more powerful engine. They are called "Frogs" (Perereca) in Brazillian service, and are considered main line tanks (but not MBTs). It can hold a 90mm? ------------------ No bastard has ever won a war by dying for his country. They won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. shadow@jagdtiger.de Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I recently acquired Squadron/Signal publications "US Tank Destroyers in Action" Armor Number 36. Its interesting to note that the UN captured a Serbian M-18 following the Dayton Peace accords. They even have a picture of it. It says Slobodon only drove it on Sundays to execute prisoners. Now thats a classic. Looks like all original equipment, except for flames painted on the fenders. [This message has been edited by Dittohead (edited 01-24-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Do they perchance mount the French AMX turret in place of the original? ------------------ When it's my turn to march up to Glory, I'm gonna have one HELL of a story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 I have not gotten that far. So far all I know is they are still running, and they are armed with a 90mm gun. The gun was not made in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Apparently they're called the X-1A and X-1A2. Neat. http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~dpohara/afvs.htm ------------------ When it's my turn to march up to Glory, I'm gonna have one HELL of a story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I see a real grog tourism opportunity here. All you re-enactors out there better brush up on your Spanish and Portuguese. Of course, I'm sure that in more than a few of these places you can get by with German just fine ------------------ Ethan ----------- "We forbid any course that says we restrict free speech." -- Dr. Kathleen Dixon, Director of Women's Studies, Bowling Green State University Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 That's a lot of WWII hardware still in service down in South/Central America. They could make some money renting them out to Hollywood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Yep. Just browse that list. Look at all the Shermans still active. Greyhounds. M3 Halftracks. M3 and M5 Stuarts. Tons o' stuff. ------------------ When it's my turn to march up to Glory, I'm gonna have one HELL of a story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Guess they haven't had a real war down there for awhile. M18s, M4A3 Main Battle Tanks. ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Brazilian X1A1 Cool or what? And the X1A: And the X1A2: ------------------ When it's my turn to march up to Glory, I'm gonna have one HELL of a story... The Face of Evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 There have been border conflicts a plenty. Chile versus Argentina for example, but rarely open war. None of the countries has the money for one thing, and another their is not much to fight over: boarders are stable (on paper) and the peoples are not really intermixed. The worst thing to happen down there is the drug war. Brazil right now is bumping up its forces to fight the spillage from Columbia, and several other countries have decided that drug trafficers, rather than being a boon to the economy, are a drain, and are planning on dealing with it using the military rather than the usually corrupted police systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Hakko Ichiu: I see a real grog tourism opportunity here. All you re-enactors out there better brush up on your Spanish and Portuguese. Of course, I'm sure that in more than a few of these places you can get by with German just fine Only if you want to stay in some kind of Amish comunity. German inmigration here was far low than in other places in the world after WWII, like USA and URSS Shermans are still in use in Paraguay's Army, and I bet that they aren't upgraded at all... Bullethead posted some links to Sherman's in service in the Argentina's Army in 1984, upgunned at 105mm with the French gun used by later models of AMX13 and with diesel engines, shovels and, IIRC, an Urdan antimine roller... Ah! And some additional 200 litres fuel tanks added in the back of the turret... I'm too lazy to do a search of the link and Bullethead is not in reach right now... Maybe tomorrow or in the weekend Those M4s are now in reserve. But, strangely, the Argentinian Army has put in service again (they were in reserve) M3 Halftracks upgraded in former Infantry units to mechanize it... They have 20mm guns, 105mm recoiless guns and 81mm mortars in it... Ariel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Forever Babra: And the X1A: And the X1A2: Note the 90mm Gun and new turret on a Stuart. They even say they like them better than the Bulldogs they have, all of which are in reserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Slapdragon: There have been border conflicts a plenty. Chile versus Argentina for example, but rarely open war. None of the countries has the money for one thing, and another their is not much to fight over: boarders are stable (on paper) and the peoples are not really intermixed. The worst thing to happen down there is the drug war. Brazil right now is bumping up its forces to fight the spillage from Columbia, and several other countries have decided that drug trafficers, rather than being a boon to the economy, are a drain, and are planning on dealing with it using the military rather than the usually corrupted police systems. Slapdragon, you will be surprised on why Brazil is upgrading his Armed Forces. They think that the drug war is an excuse to intervene in Amzonia in the future. And , although USA wants the military working in drug enforcement in Latin America, only Columbia have agreed with that. Almost all the other countries (Argentina being the case I know the best) had strong laws to avoid military making security tasks. We have a very bad experience with that This is a very heat issue in our countries, as, although we see the drugs as a problem, we don't want to have our Armies making policy duties (other than UN peacekeeping, at least). Ariel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by argie: Slapdragon, you will be surprised on why Brazil is upgrading his Armed Forces. They think that the drug war is an excuse to intervene in Amzonia in the future. And , although USA wants the military working in drug enforcement in Latin America, only Columbia have agreed with that. Almost all the other countries (Argentina being the case I know the best) had strong laws to avoid military making security tasks. We have a very bad experience with that This is a very heat issue in our countries, as, although we see the drugs as a problem, we don't want to have our Armies making policy duties (other than UN peacekeeping, at least). Ariel The military build up in the northern districts is also in response to how fliud and out of control those areas have become to what amounts to cross boarder smugglers who come in, deforest a thousand acres of Amazonia, kill some Indigs, then return to were they came. Traditionally, during the era of the disaperados and the Junta in Argentina, you were all Brazil worried about. Now with the civilian government in Argentina they woke up and realized they had another Canudos on their hands in the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Slapdragon: The military build up in the northern districts is also in response to how fliud and out of control those areas have become to what amounts to cross boarder smugglers who come in, deforest a thousand acres of Amazonia, kill some Indigs, then return to were they came. Traditionally, during the era of the disaperados and the Junta in Argentina, you were all Brazil worried about. Now with the civilian government in Argentina they woke up and realized they had another Canudos on their hands in the north. I'm not sure what Canudos is But I have contact with some Brazilian military journalists, and all agreed that Brazil is worried for his North frontier, but more even, although in a more far future, for a non- Latin American intervention in the Amazonia. They are looking with great interest how the USA's patronized "Plan Colombia" develops, and they are looking close to anything that is said in International Forums about Amazonia as Global Resource... They show me some speeches from First World leaders that could have been end in a war in Europe in 1912 Ariel [This message has been edited by argie (edited 01-24-2001).] [This message has been edited by argie (edited 01-24-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Forever Babra: Apparently they're called the X-1A and X-1A2. Neat. http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~dpohara/afvs.htm Some of the data in that link is out of date. But most of the WWII equipment is still there. Ariel [This message has been edited by argie (edited 01-25-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by argie: I'm not sure what Canudos is But I have contact with some Brazilian military journalists, and all agreed that Brazil is worried for his North frontier, but more even, although in a more far future, for a non- Latin American intervention in the Amazonia. They are looking with great interest how the USA's patronized "Plan Colombia" develops, and they are looking close to anything that is said in International Forums about Amazonia as Global Resource... They show me some speeches from First World leaders that could have been end in a war in Europe in 1912 Ariel The Canudos revolt was the defining moment of the Republic. It occured in the last years of the 19th century in Canudos and was an odd mixture of religious uprising, monarchist sentiment, and new age communal living. The Canudos Revolt is best told by a book called "War at the End of the World", but unless you read Portugeuse it is a bit hard going, even for someone with Spanish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 This is fun... and I thought that the Portuguese M60 (with 105mm gun) and M48 (with 90mm gun) were old... Obviously I was wrong The M60 are USA leftovers from W Germany... The M48 sow action in Vietnam So we can say that in Portugal we use mature material... What is best then a battle hardened tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skott Karlsson Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 If you look at the terrain of most of those South American countries you'll notice that its not exactly ideal for amour warfare. Gorrilla infantry style fighting seems to be the norm. Perfect terrian for it too. So, armored vehicles such as tanks have limited usability. ~Skott~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangorn Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Hey Slappie! Just dropped by to say the best book about Canudos is "Os Sertões" by Euclides da Cunha. He acted as a journalist in the conflict and witnessed the last siege. The only problem is his writing style, now two centuries old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Fangorn: Hey Slappie! Just dropped by to say the best book about Canudos is "Os Sertões" by Euclides da Cunha. He acted as a journalist in the conflict and witnessed the last siege. The only problem is his writing style, now two centuries old. Hey Fang, I will read it. How are you? So you also have heard of the Canudos revolt . How bout them Stuarts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Hey fang, I can rumble when you want. I have been practicing my Argentine soccer fight songs to enrage you into a rushing to your defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Wouldn't the latest Jane's Armor and Artillery have all the info you'd want on this subject? Of course, it costs over $400 Those Jane's references are amazing, if you have access to them. ------------------ When men are inhuman, take care not to feel towards them as they do towards other humans. --Marcus Aurelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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