Gordon Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lord General MB: Soldier, Very true! The TD's look as though they were made in someones garage and not in a massive factory, which pumps out clean looking (shiny) models. Gotta love them "real" mods. Another neat one that is kinda half half, is the red, rusted, Panther A that I found at Tom's. Its really quite nice!<hr></blockquote> Ah. Now I see. All that book learnin' I done was wrong. Them tens of thousands of Shermans twernt built in the Detroit Arsenal after all. Apparently "Rosie the Riveter" worked out of her garage and did piece work. Thanks, LGMB it's good to learn the truth. Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Marco Bergman: I object to the label "cartoonish". This implies bold colours and reduced detail, which I don't feel is a fair statement.<hr></blockquote> Keep doing what you're doing, Marco. I was blown away by the gasoline stains near the filling points on your Sherman mod. I like how we are using 1/35 scale models (probably built by someone who never rode in a tank in his life - or had to wash one) as the basis for criticism of your mods. It strikes me as odd that a) people would clamor for mods that make tanks, bunkers and men impossible to see against the background terrain - this is after all a game. Camouflage doesn't effect gameplay in any event and I would rather see my units has clearly as possible in order to give them orders. people think that soldiers walk around unshaven, with ripped clothing, and ride around in vehicles covered in mud. Wasn't the case; soldiers shave once per day, and excessive mud buildup is cleaned off of vehicles as part of daily maintenance, lest it affect the drivetrain, suspension and other working parts. I would suggest cleaning truly excessive gobs of mud would be part of a driver's first and last parade. As I said in the group email floating around some of the posters here - if I had a dime for every minute I have spent in military wash racks, getting Army trucks to NOT look muddy and dirty, I'd be a rich man indeed. Tanks do get dusty and dirty, and soldiers get unshaven and dirty too. And usually quite rapidly in the field. However, this is not the preferred state of things, and the military takes great pains to get soldiers out of this state as quickly, and often, as possible. And personally, being an insignia grog, I prefer my tanks on the clean side anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 I'm going to stand up and say that I too prefer the "clean" look. Caking a layer of mud over the tanks makes them look ugly. I don't like looking at butt-ugly units. Also, if I were a modder I don't think I would enjoy cranking out mod after mod in various shades of brown. It's like someone else said, if you want all these different types of mods, we will have to find some more modders. In other words, if you don't like the way it is, do it yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 haha good one gordon. sadly my attempts at mud tend to fail badly. whenever i apply some paintbrush or filter, it looks like anything but mud cut and paste of mud on oyther mods tend to fail badly too for me. but your mods are beautiful and among the best even if they are not muddy! ------ most ppl do prefer no mud i think, but i like "used" models myself. to each his own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewTF Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 I'm going to have to agree with Gordon and Michael--some dirt and wear and tear can be ok, but I like to see what the vehicles look like! I use the Gordon/Marco Shermans--gotta love that camo Firefly --as well as Fernando's Panthers and Pz IVs, etc. What's concerning me in this discussion is this this talk of "real" mods vs. "cut and paste". While I agree that there are some pretty obvious "cut and paste" jobs out there (like tanks with road wheels that go off at tthe wrong angle, etc.), I think that making this kind of a distinction does a disservice to many hard-working mod artists who do use this technique as a basis for their work. I use a sort of "cut and paste" technique to achive the photographic quality of my uniform mods, but this doesn't just involve plunking down a photo of a uniform (as someone once asserted about my German uniforms), but literally hours of retouching, painting, and fabricating in Photoshop done to achieve the end results. I imagine that the same amount of hard work goes into many other "cut and pasted" mods. Like most artistic endeavors the pain and sweat of mod creation is seldom seen, only the finished product, and this makes it look easy. As someone who creates mods in both "real" (Kübelwagen) and "cut and paste" (uniforms) styles, I can honestly say that sometimes what may seem the "easier" of the two is really more difficult to do, at least for me. Anyhow, sorry for rambling on, but this talk of "real" mods vs. "not-real(?)" mods got me going. Most, if not all mods are labors of love, made because they're something WE as mod artists want to see, and they are shared for free to the CM community. If you don't like what's out there, then do what I did and go make some of your own ! [steps down off soapbox] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 Andrew, I couldn't agree more, and just wanted to make sure that everyone understood that I was in no way disparaging any form/method/style of modding over any other. They are all, as you put it, labors of love, and I appreciate them all. Gordon [ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: Gordon ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfgardner Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 Mud, smud, hand made, copied, whatever. What I want are the Sherman mods that prevent them from blowing up :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewTF Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gordon: Andrew, I couldn't agree more, and just wanted to make sure that everyone understood that I was in no way disparaging any form/method/style of modding over any other. They are all, as you put it, labors of love, and I appreciate them all. Gordon [ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: Gordon ]<hr></blockquote> Geez Gordon, I'm agreeing with you!!! I didn't think you were disparaging anyone. It's just that someone else declared some mods "real" mods and that got my bent out of shape. Just to be clear, even I don't think all mods are created equal. Some of the cut and paste jobs are pretty obvious and just plain look bad. I also think I kind of confused myself in my little diatribe--I guess I was also ranting against the [WHINE]it's not dirty/damaged/weathered enough[/WHINE] crowd. I understand that the "mudded and dusted" mod attitude is a valid one, but it gets pretty annoying when after spending days working on a mod somebody shoots you an e-mail saying for example "the uniform isn't wrinkled enough and looks too clean." Don't use them then. Better yet, modify them (with permission of course ) so they look the way you want. BTW, I also dig the ambush half-tracks. That's my new favorite vehicle mod BTW, again: I'm on the verge of (maybe) finishing the Jeep mod that I've been working on for months now. Would you be willing to maybe apply some groovy Gordon Molek winterizing on it like you did to Marco's and Fernando's vehicles? I really like the look but don't have the patience to figure out your technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 Andrew, I KNOW you're agreeing with me. I just wanted to take the opportunity in responding to your post to make sure that noone else misconstrued my position. Sure, shoot me a copy of your Jeep mod and I'd be happy to take a look. Be warned, I'm just in the final testing of a "full monty" (all the usual suspects, UK, CA, US, etc.) Jeep mod based on Feldgrau's original Jeep mod and including whitewashed and snow-covered versions. Providing you don't consider it a conflict of interest, I'd be happy to drop some snow all over your Jeep. Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewTF Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gordon: Andrew, I KNOW you're agreeing with me. I just wanted to take the opportunity in responding to your post to make sure that noone else misconstrued my position. Sure, shoot me a copy of your Jeep mod and I'd be happy to take a look. Be warned, I'm just in the final testing of a "full monty" (all the usual suspects, UK, CA, US, etc.) Jeep mod based on Feldgrau's original Jeep mod and including whitewashed and snow-covered versions. Providing you don't consider it a conflict of interest, I'd be happy to drop some snow all over your Jeep. Gordon<hr></blockquote> I KNOW that you KNOW that I KNOW that you're agreeing with me, I think Maybe I'm just going insane. My Jeep, though far from perfect, is pretty swell, so I'll send it to you when it's ready. I kind of lost interest in it after starting on the uniform mods but I'd like to finish it some day and get that sense of accomplishment that a finished mod provides I think I also got overwhelmed by all the different variations that I could make. I'll narrow it down to US, British, Canadian, and generic. I'll also make one slathered with mud, for those who must have mud. And dust. BTW, I won't consider it a conflict of interest, as mine is a Ford Jeep and not a Willys model, so it's different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatter Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 I thought I would throw my 2 cents in. Marco's Shermans are the best. I would have to say the muddy look is a nice change of pace from time to time, but over all I like to see the detail. As for damage, yes it does look nice but all of the same tank types and vehiles have exactly the same damage. Same goes for numbered tanks. I do like the look of all the extras, but just do not enjoy see 10 Shermans with the exact damage or 10 Panthers with same number. Maybe in the future BTS will allow more the one mod for the same unit. Shatter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Andrew...welcome to the "House of Insane Modder's" ;-D I have a spare straitjacket if you require it...mine is quite cosy regards Måkjager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewTF Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Does modding drive you insane or are modders insane to begin with? :confused: I guess it's kind of a chicken-or-the-egg question, isn't it? [ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: AndrewTF ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Well Andrew.....the egg come's first....because you do have to have a certain streak of madness running through your head to even contemplate doing a mod I hope you dont take up anything wrong from my previous post or misunderstand what i was trying to explain ( see there is the madness again ) when talking about the methods used to make mods. What I was trying to say is that the expectation that a modder can make a "realistic" looking mod that has the same quality of a good cut and paste project ( ie an actual colour photograph of either a real vehicle or a scale model ) is just next to impossible. I did not intend to demean anybody else's work...and i hope it has not been taken that way by anybody here. I am well aware of what it takes to make "cut and paste" mods...and i have the upmost respect for anybody willing to have a bash at it and succeed...."RESPECT MAN" I think the thrust of LGs thinking was that he would like mod's that are based on "real world vehicles"with "real world mud" to help complement the rest of the mods that he seem's to prefer. Unfortunately our old pal T has left...for how long nobody knows. Tiger was and is very good at his method of mod making...and its more the pity that he is not around at the moment to help take the strain.. In my mind a "real" mod is anything that can seduce you into believing you have the Mr McCoy right in front of you on the screen I dont think it is a case of "real" vs "cut and paste" but more so photographic quality vs digital paintbrush and its ( digital paintbrush) limitations in presenting to the end user a finished product that will ALWAYS look slightly out of place when placed along side a "mod" based on a 3d object. At the end of the day it is down to personal preference and everybody has the choice of weather they want to use X, Y or Z mod....and if they dont have the choice and still feel something is lacking....thats the time to try your hand at making a mod. So to all the people who do give their time up to try make this fantastic game a better experience.....HATS OFF and HipHip Hooooray to ye Anyway.....i am starting up a "Fellowship of Mod" ....sort of like a Wizards Guild....care to join ? Regards Måkjager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGMB Posted November 7, 2001 Author Share Posted November 7, 2001 Soldiers, You fools! Now I'm insane! What the heck are you nuts talking about? Anyway.... I sure do love Marco's sherman, and would be greatfull for anything he does, int he future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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