Doug Williams Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Would someone please tell me the difference, both in real life and in game terms, what the difference is between the 88mm PaK 43 and the 88mm Pak 43/41? Looking at the info box, they both have exactly the same penetration figures, and both are listed as "immobile". The Pak 43 costs four points more to purchase in a QB. What's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 The Pak 43 IIRC has more HE rounds then the Pak43/41. Thats all I can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 I think the two main differences are: 1) The Pak 43/41 can be towed if it is embarked before the battle begins. But once it disembarks it must remain at that spot. It's too heavy to be pushed around. 2) The Pak43, the AA version I think, has a faster rotation rate and higher ammo count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coe Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Isn't the 43 88 Pak also supposed to have a lower profile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Originally posted by coe: Isn't the 43 88 Pak also supposed to have a lower profile? I may be getting my numbers mixed up, I don't have CM here at work. But I think the 43/41 is the AT version and the 43 is the AA version. Whatever the actual case is, the AT version has a lower profile but this doesn't matter in CM. I don't think CM models gun profiles, only vehicle profiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 The Pak 43 used a four-legged mounting similar to that which the AA version used. However the gun was mounted much lower on the frame because the gun tube did not need to be elevated to high angles. The Pak 43/41 was built using a combination of available parts, the tube being mounted onto the wheeled carriage used for the 10.5cm howitzer and the wheels from the 15cm howitzer. Also including specialty parts built to hold it all together. It weighed in at approximately 4,300Kg and was very awkward to use in the field. [This message has been edited by Abbott (edited 03-30-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 *Edited* bit of a repetition. Ah, well... The 8.8 cm Pak 43 was a dedicated AT solution, from the bottom upwards, low slung (for an 88) and agile in position. One of, if not the, the most dangerous AT guns of WWII. The 43/41 on the other hand was an emergency solution in that it mounted the 88L71 on the gun carriage of the 10.5 cm leFH 18 and the wheels of the sFH 18. A solution that was effective but not optimal for an AT gun. However, in order to get the 88L71 out in the field it accepted as a compromise. M. [This message has been edited by Mattias (edited 03-30-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 I thought the AA version was the 88l56 (like on the tiger) while the AT version was 88l71 (like on the King Tiger). WWB ------------------ Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say, Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus. Check out the Dogs of War CM Players Community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 I see "Pak" guns mentioned all the time, but don't know what the term stands for. What are Pak guns and how are they different from others? Please help the ignorant. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted March 30, 2001 Author Share Posted March 30, 2001 Thanks for the info, gentlemen. -Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskander Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Originally posted by Lawyer: I see "Pak" guns mentioned all the time, but don't know what the term stands for. What are Pak guns and how are they different from others? Please help the ignorant. Thanks PAK = Panzerabwehrkanone Check out the link: http://www.forces70.freeserve.co.uk/Waffen%20SS%20Text+Images/ANTI-TANK%20WEAPONS.htm See how nice I am sober, Jake? ------------------ "Iskander, creator of The Dullest CM Game Ever" - PeterNZer "Legal advice is very often divorced from reality in my humble opinion" - BTS [This message has been edited by Iskander (edited 03-30-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Originally posted by Iskander: See how nice I am sober, Jake? You are obviously an impostor! The REAL Iskander would never waste time researching facts when simple spirits-induced slander is so easily available as a reply. Especially with a softball setup like "Please help the ignorant." I shall notify the real Iskander that you have stolen his identity, but thank you anyway for a prompt and useful answer. ------------------ The Official Slayer of Both jd and his Lackey Iskander Lest We Forget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 In CM terms, the biggest difference is that the more expensive PaK 43, with the four legged mount, can rotate to fire at a target much more quickly than the 41. IMHO it is definitley a better gun for the point value for this reason. ------------------ The Last Defense- Made any scenarios? Send them here! Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 I've also a question regarding PAKs: Wasn't there a German AT gun which mounts the gun that the Panther has ( 75L70 )? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted April 2, 2001 Share Posted April 2, 2001 Originally posted by 109 Gustav: In CM terms, the biggest difference is that the more expensive PaK 43, ... can rotate to fire at a target much more quickly than the 41. IMHO it is definitley a better gun for the point value for this reason.I'll second that any day. I recently did the mistake to pick some PaK41/43 for a PBEM, and found out that they rotate only about one or two degrees per second. One of them started to rotate towards a target (tank). The tank spotted the gun and got three or four 75mm HE off against it, knocking it out, before it had finished rotating... Next time I'll pick the better PaK43 gun. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted April 2, 2001 Share Posted April 2, 2001 Originally posted by Schugger: I've also a question regarding PAKs: Wasn't there a German AT gun which mounts the gun that the Panther has ( 75L70 )? Don't think so: the PAK 40 has a similar 5mm gun to the later PzKpfwIV, IIRC it's an L48 ------------------ Wilko "Look Mum: No Sense!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted April 2, 2001 Share Posted April 2, 2001 Originally posted by Wilko: Don't think so: the PAK 40 has a similar 5mm gun to the later PzKpfwIV, IIRC it's an L48 Looks like you're right, Wilko. Guessing from the penetration data the PAK 40 has the same gun as the IVs and StugIIIs. I somehow thought that the Germans first employed the 75L70 gun as a PAK and mounted the gun later on AFVs as it seems there have done it with the 75L48 and the 88L71. But I have no clue, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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