Desantnik Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 i am not sure if it had been ever suggested (i didnt find anything using search command) but why can't the squads shoot while riding on a halftrack or back of the tanks? In real life it was quite possible and in fact infantry did use that function as HT provided at least some protection. HTs would be really great for lightning strafes through enemy positions inflicting dissarray and panic on enemy infantry. Any thoughts or comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 I agree but the last time this was brough up I believe the official answer was something along these lines. It wasn't done that often in real life. Troops would get hauled out to the battle and dismount. They wouldn't fight from trucks or whatever so Steve and the guys decided it just wasn't real important in the game since it wasn't done that often. More important things overide lesser important things when designing a game. Anyway, I believe that was the reason. I do however think it would be pretty neat but then again I would like to see everything possible in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatter Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Desantnik: i am not sure if it had been ever suggested (i didnt find anything using search command) but why can't the squads shoot while riding on a halftrack or back of the tanks? In real life it was quite possible and in fact infantry did use that function as HT provided at least some protection. HTs would be really great for lightning strafes through enemy positions inflicting dissarray and panic on enemy infantry. Any thoughts or comments?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> --------------------------------------------- You watching Kelly's Hero's too? I figure you saw the guys firing from Halftracks and came up with this. In fact about six months ago I was watching Kelly's Heros and came up with same question. Icm1947 is correct Shatter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 Not just Kelly's Heroes serves as inspiration for firing while riding... If you read unit histories, etc. you will very rarely encounter sections where a KG went into battle with the passengers up and firing (once in 7 volumes in my own reading). Let's double check that recipe: <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>A HT moving at assault speed on an uneven road surface (if it is a road)<LI>Your hands on your weapon (you are shooting aren't you?)<LI>Not seated, but standing I believe that the chance of falling over and sustaining injury by some pointy thing or worse was the main discourager for this activity. The weaponry mounted on the HT was very frequently used while on the move, not always for accuracy, but more for shock value. If you keep their heads down you can drive a bit closer to dismount. My own 2 centavos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 Once upon a time there was a cute little newbie who came unto the forum and said something like: G'day mate! What it would be kewl to have multi turreted tanks?! What say you mate! Top sheila! To which Steve said: Shut up you ignorant Ozzer! Then it was hinted that multi turreted AFVs would wreck Hell on the TacAI and on facing and whatnots. Firing from HTs would be just that. How would you code it? And so the SheepShagger was banned and nobody asked such questions. Voila... The ability to fire on the move would be cool for a zone denial with flamethrowers firing from the back of HTs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desantnik Posted July 30, 2001 Author Share Posted July 30, 2001 ispitation for this came when 3 of my HTs w/infantry were helplessly slaughtered without firing a bloody shot. And i dont see how this works same as multi-turreted AFVs. HT and Infantry in it are separate unit entities. thus infantry should work just the same as it stands on a normal ground while riding on a HT. Oh and soldier has to be a real damn idiot to fall of HT travelling at 30 km/h. To be picky, feauture could be implemented so inf. can only fire when HT is not on the move. Though i dont see how they can't fire while it's moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPick Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 Desantnik, Please collect the following evidence for this feature request. 1) Find friend with 4x4 pickup or hummvee 2) Stand in bed of vehicle holding a broom or other 2 handed implement. 3) Ask friend to drive across a field at 30 kph 4) aim implement at a target and see if you get a chance to "fire" at the target before beginning your impromptue fallschirmjaeger training! =) PLEASE NOTE: DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME! YOUR FUTURE CM PLAYING TIME MAY BE GREATLY REDUCED! This has been a public service announcement for the "Real Panzergrenadiers don't let other Panzergrenadiers shoot mounted" campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 Desantnik: Warphead and I had the pleasure to take a ride in the Czech (Germanized) version of a Sdkfz 251/1 over a historical battlefield in the ardennes. We moved at a rather slow speed for about 4km in total. Lessons learned: <ul>[*]this thing bumps up and down like hell [*]while on the move you need both hands to remain standing with any semblance of safety [*] you won'T fire and HIT anything smaller than a barn while on the move. [*] this thing is so small that there is barely space to sit for 9(10) people riding in it, let alone do something useful, like shoot, reloading weapons, etc. [*] you DON'T want to be in one when there is a battle going on. The first thing you think before climbing in one is: this is suicide under battle conditions. The armor is so thin that it's laughable. You can check this out for yourself at a small museum in the ardennes, in the village Poteau. Find a description and some pictures on Jagdtiger.de (click on link in my sig) Lindan [edited TYPOS!] [ 07-30-2001: Message edited by: Lindan ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desantnik Posted July 30, 2001 Author Share Posted July 30, 2001 i did ride BMP-1/2 on top qiute a few times and could fire my AK74 just fine. People fired PKMs from the hip sitting on top of BMPs. And BMPs is as bumpy ride as it can get (HTs at least had a front wheels with some kind of flexibility, BMPs are all tracks. Also i raised the point why cannot soldier fire from HTs while HTs are statinary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak_43 Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 Have you seen the 251/1 at Bovington stuffed with a squad of dummies dressed in German uniforms standing up? Those guys didn't have room to raise their arms let alone fire.....black-eyes all round and a MAJOR inter-squad fist-fight the moment the halft-track stops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lindan: Desantnik: Warphead and I had the pleasure to take a ride in the Czech (Germanized) version of a Sdkfz 251/1 over a historical battlefield in the ardennes. We moved at a rather slow speed for about 4km in total. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Lucky bastiche. Oh, and lest I forget, Lawyer is heading that way in a week or so; he's a lucky bastiche too. Sigh. Someday I won't have kids at home and I'll be able to go play, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 would it be that hard to "code" the game to allow ridding infantry to shoot from a stationary/moving HT? i think that it is a shame to watch a HT with 12 men in it get shot up because all 12 men are sitting on their rifles. maybe we are being whiney, but it would be nice to see. if its a real pain to "code", then thats completely understandible. but it sure would be fun to have a platoon of HT moving forward with all guns a blazing! moving infantry sure dont hesitate to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 It was said much earlier (not in this thread) that the code is not impossible, just very time consuming for something that was not often done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted July 30, 2001 Share Posted July 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> just very time consuming for something that was not often done.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> than that answers my question, id rather see them spend that "time" on other more important gaming points. thanks slapdragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 There was a nice thread recently which made mention of German SOP concerning firing from halftracks. I can't find that just now, but I did find an early comment from BTS on the subject. Can mounted infantry fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ts9 Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 I had the chance a few weeks back to attend a public display/battle where we had a US halftrack available for use. I have to agree it would be very diffacult to fire with any accuracy when on the move, even over the relatively smooth ground we were on it was a very rough ride. With 10 armed and equipped GI's there was barely enough room to move around inside, this was with just the basic field packs and weapons. Much better to dismount and use the guns on the track for support. Getting to close to the enemy usually resulted in getting the track knocked out, a vet once told me they nicknamed their tracks "grenade buckets" because that's what they seemed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 Since this is a pretty much discussed thread allow me to put my 2 cents in. Not having been in WWII I was however in Viet Nam and did ride a lot in trucks, not half tracks but trucks. These ranged in size from your regular 2 1/2 ton to 5 ton bridge trucks ( big mothers, if you've ever seen one ) but anyway, I or should say we had no problem standing. There would however only be room for two guys at a time to stand and provide guard while traveling. Now there may be a lot of difference in the ride compared to a half track and I'm sure there was but it wasn't so much the fact that you wouldn't be able to shoot from one but we were taught to get the hell off of it and get away from it if attacked. They explode real good and you wouldn't want to be around one. Anyway, this may help answer why you don't fight from a vehicle unless you have to. Oh one last comment. In real rough terrain the guards sat down even though we weren't supposed to. Couldn't have shot if we had had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostro Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 I can't imagine a T-34 being attacked by Panzerfaust from 20 m and the riding infantry looking at the show while waiting for an "unmount" order...http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/biggrin.gif It seems that the firing ports in WW2 and actual vehicles were made to see the enemy approaching...http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/eek.gif I accept the tanks giving no protection to riding (and following) infantry, but not allowing them to fire an AT team at 20m, while stationary, is something abnormal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrSpkr: Lucky bastiche. Oh, and lest I forget, Lawyer is heading that way in a week or so; he's a lucky bastiche too. Sigh. Someday I won't have kids at home and I'll be able to go play, too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Theres a T-34/85 thats available for rides near my area . I stole this from a thread in the General Forum. Tank Ride You can play with the MGs too. Their price isn't bad either. [ 07-31-2001: Message edited by: panzerwerfer42 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumvir Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 I rode in M113s when doing mortar training (I first went to SP mortars, then to guns) and I can say with absolute certainty that you do NOT want to be standing, let alone trying to shoot while travelling cross-country in an M113. Presumably an M113 has even better suspension than a WWII halftrack -- if that's the case, then good luck to the poor bastards who try shooting while moving. Unless, like the VC or an MG gunner, you have a mount to hold on to, it's next to impossible to keep footing when moving at any kind of speed. My memories of cross country moves (and this on what would count as CM dirt roads) somehow all seem to blur into one continuous jackhammering of my (helmeted) head into the roof... (Hmm... maybe that explains some of my posts... 8)) And our mortar tracks were considered roomy with only six people inside! I'll never regret moving to guns... there are so many more flat surfaces in trucks and guns to sleep on than inside a track... However, if the vehicle is stationary, then I would think that passengers should be allowed to shoot out; in fact they may get a bonus as there would be quite a few protrusions to balance weapons on. Incidentally, the bravest people I ever saw were Taiwanese artillerymen deploying their M109s; those poor bastards hung on to the barrel of their tracks with one hand and waved flags in the other, trying to move into their deployment ground. Lose concentration for a second and hey presto! gun commander pancakes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 I couldn't find that discussion either, but going from memory I believe the main points of it were: When Panzergrenediers were exploiting a break in the enemy line, it was SOP to fire while mounted at enemy units they were bypassing. However, they didn't do this expecting to hit anyone, it was supression fire only to keep the enemy's heads down long enough for them to zoom past. When they reached an area they were expected to assault, or if their way was blocked unexpectedly, they would dismount to fight. Fighting mounted from a stationary HT was not SOP and would have been a very bad idea in any case. Being as CM does not really model the breakout type of engagement (unfortunately) where firing mounted was SOP, the lack of this ability in CM is not a big deal. Someone (Michael Emrys?) made a suggestion to add this type of engagement into CM2. I thought it was a great idea, but I don't know what came of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 Couple more links, but not the one I'm thinking of. Shoot from Halftrack Fighting from half-tracks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: Theres a T-34/85 thats available for rides near my area . I stole this from a thread in the General Forum. Tank Ride You can play with the MGs too. Their price isn't bad either. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Interesting. Next time I'm in the area, I might give it a whirl. One question, though: why in the world does a Soviet tank have German markings? Marketing to the idiot crowd, are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 Ahh, never mind. They explain it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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