Will CM run on my 1.3Ghz P4?

[Echo]

Alot of die hard gamers go for the Athalon for price and value. No sweat there. Money wasn't a big deciding factor for me. If I was on a budget I would have gone the Athalon route.

What sold me was the 400Mhz system bus that provides 3.2 Gbyte speed between the CPU and the memory. This has always been the choke point for 3D software (games), and no other system can beat that.

There are also new commands on the CPU that arent optimized in todays software yet, so I wont have to upgrade again for a couple of yearsb at least.

Now you all drink some friggin beer and calm down.

[Doug Williams]

Cubbies Phan,

Hey! I finally made somebodies sig file! :cool: I'm da man!

I can't really take too much credit though, that "Intel compatible" comment has been around a long time.

Seriously though, I can see the reasons for buying AMD chips. As was said earlier, Intel just feels "safer" somehow. The current fastest AMDs may be faster than the current P4s for most applications, but that will likely change. We will most likely see 2 GHz+ P4s before the end of this year. AMD, as they always do, will play catch up for a while, until their chips equal or exceed the P4. Then Intel will come out with the P5, and so on, ad infinitum. Competition is good (for us, the consumer, anyway). Too bad Cyrix bailed out.

[Red Dog]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Terence:

I'd just like to say that Im so incredibly rich that it doesn't matter how much money my computer costs.

I'll just use it for a couple months and throw it away and buy a new one. I just like to buy computers.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where do you live? I'd love to come buy and pick through your trash... or even better, if you could just mail me your old computers when you're done with them I'd be happy to pay the shipping costs... :cool:

[Terence]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red Dog:

Where do you live? I'd love to come buy and pick through your trash... or even better, if you could just mail me your old computers when you're done with them I'd be happy to pay the shipping costs... :cool:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh heh, see my follow up post...

For the record, if you already have a monitor, you can get a Dell 8100 today with a free CDRW and a pentium 4 1.3 gig processor, 256 megs of PC600RDRAM a 20 gig hard drive and a 32 meg Nvidia Geforce 2

graphics card. for 1400 bucks. What do you guys think? Too much?

[Rother]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

Anyone been to Deadhorse, Alaska?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, many times. How about you?

Where the hell is Chitna?

Rother

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Terence:

Heh heh, see my follow up post...

For the record, if you already have a monitor, you can get a Dell 8100 today with a free CDRW and a pentium 4 1.3 gig processor, 256 megs of PC600RDRAM a 20 gig hard drive and a 32 meg Nvidia Geforce 2

graphics card. for 1400 bucks. What do you guys think? Too much?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I upgraded to a 1.2Ghz Athlon, 266 MHz FSB, ASUS A7V133 mobo., 256MB PC133 SDRAM, 64MB Geforce 2 GTS SE, 30 GB HDD, new ATX case, 2 cooling fans (instead of 1) for a little over $1100 (tax included). $290 was the video card.

[Jeff Heidman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KMHPaladin:

it's just that I got ticked when I saw someone going after someone who'd bought a computer with what seemed to be the intention of making him feel bad about his purchase.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And how would you know that was my intention?

What makes you think Echo needs you to protect him anyway?

Jeff Heidman

[Letsbe Ave.]

I think the majority of right-thinking people in this forum are sick and tired of being told how sick and tired we are with being told we are sick and tired (of the XXX vs YYY debate). I certainly am not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.

[Lee]

Well, since we're talking about fast PC's...

My new system will be here Monday at the latest. It's an Athlon 1333 Mhz,

256 meg DDR ram, Geforce III, 45 gig drive, plus a bunch of other goodies. :cool:

I picked the Athlon because it is faster than a PIV for gaming, with the exception

of Quake III, which for some reason no one can fathom runs unusually fast on

PIV's. In order for a PIV to beat an Athlon for 3D gaming (not counting Quake III),

it has to have a much faster Mhz rating. A 1700 Mhz PIV would probably be

about equal to my 1333 MHz Athlon. And my Athlon is cheaper and available

right now, unlike the PIV.

And since I intend to overclock the Athlon, it will be faster than the PIV,

anyhow. It's going to be a massive improvement over my current system

and I can't wait to see it in action.

But, in any case, you have real nice fast system there, Echo. Enjoy the

crazy frame rates and fast turn resolution times. Give us a report on just

how much faster it is after you get a chance to really try it out.

[Soddball]

*sag* I can't match that.

850 Thunderbird, 512MB RAM, twin 30GB Ultra-100 drives, 32MB GEForce - but it does everything I ask it to

BTW - if anyone is finding their computer drags a bit, sticking an extra DIMM in there is the cheapest way of getting a big performance boost, as far as I can see (unless you're using RIMMs )

[Jeff Heidman]

OK, lets see, I propose that we create a really big (10000 points?) scneario with lots of stuff going on, and then compare the speed that Lee and Echos systems generate a turn!

We will see who the REAL CM processor is!

Jeff Heidman

[André]

Another thing to mention is that AMD will stick to the Socket A format for a while. Intel on the other hand have plans to switch over to another socket format in the near future. This will make it impossible or very hard for those who buy the current P4's to upgrade later. Another good reason not to buy the current P4.

I myself bought a AMD Duron 600mhz some time ago. It didnt cost much and I overclocked to 900mhz! Together with my Geforce 2GTS, it was real bang for the money. I do not plan to upgrade any time soon, but when I do I will go for a new AMD without any doubts. And a Geforce 3 Ultra of course, hehe.

I am sure Echo will be very pleased with his new system, so lets not try to spoil the pleasure for him.

Heinz

[ 05-04-2001: Message edited by: Heinz 25th PzReg ]

[Doug Williams]

This issue (AMD T-Bird vs Pentium 4) was briefly addressed in the latest (June) issue of Computer Gaming World, page 110. A reader wrote in stating he was going to buy a system from Alienware (maker of high-end dedicated gaming systems), and asked if he should get an AMD 1.2 GHz CPU or a Pentium 4. Instead of answering the question themselves, CGW contacted Alienware and got an answer from them.

I quote:

"Alienware has extensively tested both processors, and as a result, both processors are very stable and compatible with all your current games. But Intel's Pentium 4 will eventually outperform even the fastest AMD processors currently available as soon as games optimized for it are released. The Pentium 4 also uses the fastest Front-Side Bus of all the processors that are available now, 400 MHz. Another good thing to keep in mind is that the Pentium 4 has been optimized for Microsoft's upcoming Windows XP, which means even more potential for extra power from the processor."

-Doug

[Terence]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soddball:

*sag* I can't match that.

850 Thunderbird, 512MB RAM, twin 30GB Ultra-100 drives, 32MB GEForce - but it does everything I ask it to

BTW - if anyone is finding their computer drags a bit, sticking an extra DIMM in there is the cheapest way of getting a big performance boost, as far as I can see (unless you're using RIMMs )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two questions, what is A DIMM? What is a RIMM?

And how big can CM scenarios get??? Is there a limit built into the software?? Obviously theres a limit based on hardware -- a slow computer won't run the really big stuff, but assuming you had an infinitely fast computer, how big of a cm scenario could you run?

[Lee]

Jeff: Haha...

Doug: The same could be said for games which are optimized for the Athlon.

And Windows XP? It will run native Windows 95, 98 and ME games in emulation

mode, that equals a performance hit, uggh. I'll stick with Win 98 and

keep the extra speed, thank you very much.

And game companies will continue to make games for a long time in

the native Win 9x format because that's what every gamer out there is

going to be using for quite awhile. A couple years from now, after MS

has worked out a bunch of the bugs and gotten rid of that disgusting

plan they have to only allow you to install XP on one system without

having to pay extra, then I'll consider moving to XP, but not until then.

And while we are discussing Operating Systems, anyone who is thinking

of getting a new system, I would recommend you ask to have windows 98

or 98SE installed in your system, instead of Windows ME. All of the

knowledgeable users I have talked to say Win ME is much less stable than

Win 95 or Win 98.

And lets remember that any of the top systems that have been mentioned

here are more than fast enough to make CM smoke, so the point is moot.

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Terence:

Two questions, what is A DIMM? What is a RIMM?

And how big can CM scenarios get??? Is there a limit built into the software?? Obviously theres a limit based on hardware -- a slow computer won't run the really big stuff, but assuming you had an infinitely fast computer, how big of a cm scenario could you run?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A DIMM is a Double Integrated Memory Module. Which means that the memory stick has memory chips on both sides of the stick.

I have no idea what a RIMM is. I think he meant SIMM. In which case is a Single Integrated Memory Module which is of course memory chips on just one side of the stick.

I don't know if there is a limit to CM scenario size, but my 1.2Ghz rig can handle huge maps, hi-res grass, every hi-res mod possible and it runs smoothly. I do get a graphics "hiccup" every now and then as I rotate the camera as the graphics load into memory which I think is just a bottleneck created by the HDD.

[Doug Williams]

Lee said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The same could be said for games which are optimized for the Athlon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which games are optimized for the Athlon?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> And Windows XP? It will run native Windows 95, 98 and ME games in emulation

mode, that equals a performance hit, uggh. I'll stick with Win 98 and keep the extra speed, thank you very much. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhh, but if XP is optimized for the P4, there may not be any performance hit (for P4 users anyway). By the time XP is released, the P4 will most likely be 2 GHz+, FSB speeds will be faster, Geforce 3 video cards will be common, etc., so today's games will run plenty, plenty fast, I imagine.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And game companies will continue to make games for a long time in the native Win 9x format because that's what every gamer out there is going to be using for quite awhile. A couple years from now, after MS has worked out a bunch of the bugs and gotten rid of that disgusting plan they have to only allow you to install XP on one system without having to pay extra, then I'll consider moving to XP, but not until then. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That sounds like a good plan. I'm still using W98 myself.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And while we are discussing Operating Systems, anyone who is thinking of getting a new system, I would recommend you ask to have windows 98 or 98SE installed in your system, instead of Windows ME. All of the knowledgeable users I have talked to say Win ME is much less stable than Win 95 or Win 98. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was thinking of installing ME, but really didn't see much advantage to doing that. ME, from what I understand, is basically W98 with some added features (native zip support, etc.) I haven't heard about any ME instability problems, so if I was buying a new system, I would probably want ME, unless you could point us to some web article by a trustworthy source that can tell us otherwise. I find that most "knowledgeable users" are just opinionated (like me).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And lets remember that any of the top systems that have been mentioned here are more than fast enough to make CM smoke, so the point is moot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are exactly right.

Heinz had a good point. Intel will probably soon be switching sockets, which will hurt the upgradeability of the current P4s.

[Jeff Heidman]

As far as ME is concerned, I am a long time gamer, and I went ahead and upgraded to ME.

I found that it was as stable as 98SE. The enhancements were ok, but minor.

I would recommend getting it for anyone purchasing a new PC, but it is probably not worth the trouble of upgrading if you have 98SE.

Jeff Heidman

[Doug Williams]

A DIMM is a Dual Inline Memory Module. It has a 64 bit data path, unlike a SIMM, which is a Single Inline Memory Module and has a 32 bit data path. I believe that both DIMMs and SIMMs can have chips on either one or both sides.

I do not know what a RIMM is.

[Terence]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doug Williams:

A DIMM is a Dual Inline Memory Module. It has a 64 bit data path, unlike a SIMM, which is a Single Inline Memory Module and has a 32 bit data path. I believe that both DIMMs and SIMMs can have chips on either one or both sides.

I do not know what a RIMM is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks to you and Maximus.

What is a 32 Bit data path?

[Doug Williams]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>What is a 32 Bit data path? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It just means the SIMM moves data in 32 bit "chunks". A DIMM moves data in 64 bit "chunks", so it is twice as fast (more or less).

[Lee]

Doug said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Which games are optimized for the Athlon?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How many have been deliberately optimized for the PIV? It generally takes

quite awhile for major games to come along that have such things. In

the mean time, while we wait to see what games will or won't be

optimized for this or that processor, I'll take what's fastest now.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Ahhh, but if XP is optimized for the P4, there may not be any performance hit (for P4 users anyway). By the time XP is released, the P4 will most likely be 2 GHz+, FSB speeds will be faster, Geforce 3 video cards will be common, etc., so today's games will run plenty, plenty fast, I imagine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Today's games aren't so much the issue.

For games like DOOM III, Team Fortress II, Half Life II, IL-2 Stormovik,

Max Payne, etc. we will need all the speed we can possibly get, I don't want

to give up anything I don't have to. Of course, Athlons will be faster

by then, as well. But why would I want to waste performance and deal with

the virtually guaranteed bugs of XP? Answer: I don't.

As far as ME goes, users' experiences vary, but most of the serious

performance users I know say that when they switched to ME from 98 they

had many more crashes and they switched back after getting fed up with it.

I guess it depends how you use your system as to how ME reacts. Since these

are some of the most experienced users I know, I took their advice and

stuck with 98 for my new system. ME also eats up more system resources,

IIRC. And we've already established I don't like wasted resources.

I run my systems lean and mean, no wasted speed, no junk running in the

background, etc.

But hey, if someone wants to run ME, be my guest, I'll stick with what's

least likely to give me hassles.

[Guest ckoharik]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lee:

My new system will be here Monday at the latest. It's an Athlon 1333 Mhz,

256 meg DDR ram, Geforce III, 45 gig drive, plus a bunch of other goodies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right there with ya, Lee, except I'm at 512MB (because of 3D modelling on the side) and two 20MB drives. After much fighting (see Tech forum for my message thread) I ended up replacing the MB (Soyo K7ADA) and that solved most of my problems (except the Windows 2K shutdown stall). I went the AMD route simple due to rep and most importantly price. My last systems were a P3-450 and P3-600. Great little systems (hehe...I can't believe I consider them little now) for their time but I really wanted to make the jump now. My only concern is the heat issue. Any suggestions on cooling options?

[Doug Williams]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>For games like DOOM III, Team Fortress II, Half Life II, IL-2 Stormovik, Max Payne, etc. we will need all the speed we can possibly get, I don't want to give up anything I don't have to. Of course, Athlons will be faster by then, as well. But why would I want to waste performance and deal with the virtually guaranteed bugs of XP? Answer: I don't. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But, like I said earlier, if XP is optimized for the Pentium 4, those games you mention may actually run faster on XP than they will on W98 for those with Pentium 4 processors.

Why am I arguing this? I don't have a P4 or an Athlon. :confused:

I'm gonna go play CM now, which runs plenty fast on my PIII 866/Geforce 2 system.

[Echo]

I have built the altar. The living-room has been cleared and I have stacked all three boxes full of my new system in the middle of the floor. Combat Mission, in its jewel case is placed mightily upon the entire heap.

I shall dance naked feverishly about the great totum, and pray to the gods of MHtz. that no ill thing like bugs or crashes shall impedede me on my quest for gratification.

My alcohol imbued veins will not rest until every cord has been laid, and every connection in its place, and my eyeballs are basking in the warm glow of the promised land, Gigahertzdom.

Then I'll get back to my usual routine of wooping the snot out of you bastards. BURP!