Beer_n_Pretzels Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Greetings CMer's My burning question for the day is: If you are fighting a combined arms meeting engagement, would give up (or ask for a ceasefire) when all of your armour has been destroyed, and your opponent still has armour available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 That's why God invented PIATs, Panzerfausts and rifle grenades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Originally posted by Beer_n_Pretzels: If you are fighting a combined arms meeting engagement, would give up (or ask for a ceasefire) when all of your armour has been destroyed, and your opponent still has armour available? Never for that reason - I give up when my infantry is destroyed or I can see I can no longer make any headway. opponents tend to get cocky when you have lost your armour, which means they get careless and lose their armour to LATWs. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J Pender Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Hello B-n-P, No I would not Quit or give up, although if I was sure I couldn't win I would establish a rear guard then attempt to make a controlled good order withdrawal off the map. Maybe set up some hidden ambushes in the process. Take care John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Originally posted by Beer_n_Pretzels: Greetings CMer's My burning question for the day is: If you are fighting a combined arms meeting engagement, would give up (or ask for a ceasefire) when all of your armour has been destroyed, and your opponent still has armour available? Not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Never! Infantry by late WWII have good ways of taking out armor. It's a matter of best employing what you have left! ------------------ "Uncommon valor was a common virtue"-Adm.Chester Nimitz of the Marines on Iwo Jima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 When only your enemy has armored forces use infantry with kamikaze ideals! [This message has been edited by Sherman (edited 01-28-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THumpre Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 No way, If that was my criteria then I'd have to give up on almost all my games Seriously, Armor in only a part of the battle plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 To do so would be follishness! Remember that infantry can hold VL's much better then armor can! Especially if said VL's are in the midst of a town, wood, or some other terrain which vehicles are afraid to/cannot enter. Cheers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seany B Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Absolutely Not! It's infantry that wins battles, armour just helps them along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skott Karlsson Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 You can invent all the ungodly vehicles, bombs and weapons of mass destruction but in the end its always that poor old foot soldier that determines who holds the land. ~Skott~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 In 1 1500 pt me i was playing germans and choose 1 vet panther g late and 1 reg as my armour. On turn 4 I lost both without firing a shot to 2 vet 17 pounder AT guns. My enemy still had all his armour... 1 cromwell and 2 fireflys. All I had left was a puma. Knocked out 1 firefly with the puma and managed a minor victory by cutting all his men 2 peices with my gebrigsjager and fallschirmjager platoons. Tanks are great support units... but men are the key to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimp Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Schalburg Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Infantry Queen of the battlefield. ------------------ PanzerLeid Mit donnernden Motoren, So schnell wie der Blitz, Dem Feinde entgegen, Im Panzer geschützt. Voraus den Kameraden Im Kampfe ganz allein, Steh'n wir allein, So stossen wir tief In die feindlichen Reihn. von Schalburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailz Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 As a matter of fact, I recently began a ladder match with infantry only versus a combined arms force... just to see if I could succeed without tanks versus tanks. Historically it must've happened quite a bit I would assume. ("Terribly sorry captain, but our armour is engaged on the left, so you're on your own. Bit of a sticky wicket, eh wot?! Nevertheless, we must endeavour to persevere!!} ------------------ "Poor, poor, pitiful me... these young girls won't let me be... woe is me!" Warren Zevon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Originally posted by tailz: As a matter of fact, I recently began a ladder match with infantry only versus a combined arms force... just to see if I could succeed without tanks versus tanks. Historically it must've happened quite a bit I would assume. ("Terribly sorry captain, but our armour is engaged on the left, so you're on your own. Bit of a sticky wicket, eh wot?! Nevertheless, we must endeavour to persevere!!} I think the only patently unfair battle would be Infantry attacking a mechanized unit, or meeting engangement with one over open ground. Infantry defend great, they fight in built up areas very well, and a tank that walks to close is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer_n_Pretzels Posted January 29, 2001 Author Share Posted January 29, 2001 Gentlemen! I salute you. It is good to see that you would not give up. You comments show that you would assess the situation, modify your plan, grit your teeth and then stride forward to tear the still beating heart out of your opponents chest. My next question is: If you have no armour, but your opponent does, how will this change your tactics in a combined arms meeting engagement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATguy Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 When I have little or no armor I dont fret I just have to adjust tactics accordingly. I use smoke where possible. Diversion tactics, and use close quarter combat where possible. I have found that when my opponent has tanks but little infantry I know I will win. The only time I have a problem is when the country side is wide open and no place to move in concealment, then I have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seany B Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Depends on the armour I'm facing. If I've determined that I'm up against a Churchill VIII or Stuh IV, I'll tread very warily with my PBI. If I'm facing a fairly standard tank with a gun of 75mm, them my plan will remain fairly unaffected, though I'll be trying to get my AT assets to silence him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J Pender Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Rush fwd to victory locations then slowly fall back drawing the opponents inf into the woods/town to a position where his armor cant stand off and supply covering fire. Then hopefully draw my opponents armor in closer while working my AT assets into positions were they can attack the armor by the flank. Once the Armor has hopefully moved fwd to engage my holding force I would call in the Arty to button them up then smoke em and send out the AT assets. Depends on the terrain and the assets you have at your disposal. Take care John Looks good on paper? [This message has been edited by J Pender (edited 01-28-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J Pender Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Originally posted by Beer_n_Pretzels: Gentlemen! My next question is: If you have no armour, but your opponent does, how will this change your tactics in a combined arms meeting engagement? Hello B-n-P these are fun: Maybe someone can start a daily tactics quiz. Give us a scenario, provide us with an overhead map of the battlefield, a list of our assets and some recon info on what type of force we will be facing. Then we can develop a plan based on the info provided. It is good to practice developing a battle plan in you head on how you would deploy in a given situation. Plus we could all learn from each others plans. Take care John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Nope. Don't quit until your infantry has had it. (Of course, if you're playing the Brits and your PIATs are done for, you're in a bit more trouble because they don't have squad-level AT assets like 'fausts or rifle grenades. I rather enjoy defending with infantry against a CA attack. Very challenging. I've played to a draw, but have not won doing that (against human opponents). Learned alot along the way, though. ------------------ "Moriarty, you suck." -- Dunno, but somebody must've said it somewhere along the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvet Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 I am playing (we got disconnected and I haven't seen the oppenent for a couple of days) a TCP/IP game that pretty much ended up this way. I am the French attacking the Germans in a 600 point QB. We let the computer pick our forces. I got three halftracks and a 75 Sherman. In the very early turns my infantry found a German light gun (I think it was 20mm). I brought my Sherman up to nail it from afar. I tried to put him in a position with a building to cover the side pointed toward the part of the map that wasn't investigated yet and a limited LOS containing the light gun. My mistake was that I used the hunt command intead of the move fast. When the gun came into his view he stopped to fire. The place he stopped in exposed his side to a big part of the map. Before I could order him to move he got nailed by an AT gun that I hadn't seen yet. Now I had three halftracks for armor, lol. Well, I'm not one to give up early so I pressed on. My oppenent later made a few mistakes and I managed to use my infantry to overcome my lack of armor. At this point in the game it is very close. This turned out to be one of the closest and hard fought battles I've played up to this time. I can't wait to see how it turns out! If I gave up early I would not have had this fun, and that's why most of us play right? ------------------ Craig "Only a madman would consider the possibility of war between the two states (France and Germany), for which, from our point of view, there is no rational or moral ground." - Chancellor Adolf Hitler, Oct. 14, 1933 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer_n_Pretzels Posted January 29, 2001 Author Share Posted January 29, 2001 Originally posted by J Pender: Hello B-n-P these are fun: Maybe someone can start a daily tactics quiz. Give us a scenario, provide us with an overhead map of the battlefield, a list of our assets and some recon info on what type of force we will be facing. Then we can develop a plan based on the info provided. Hi John, this is a good idea. I'll have to think about it and see what I can do. I'm no expert but I'm sure the CM community could have a bit of fun seeing what the Grogs and experienced players come up with. take care BnP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Originally posted by Sherman: When only your enemy has armored forces use infantry with kamikaze ideals! Are you kidding? I wish I had an enemy that only had armor. It would be a snap... Drop some arty on them to make htem close their hatches, wander some infantry in amongst them and ta-da! No more armored enemies.... Even easier if you are playing the Germans! edited for spelling.... hey! Yo utry spelling on Superbowl SUnday! [This message has been edited by Compassion (edited 01-29-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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