CM2....how's it coming along.......?

[Phoenix]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DukeMonty:

....can you imagine having to play your large but inexperienced army against a very few highly expereinced well equiped German Panzer units?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The game already supports this.

I don't want to run this into the ground as it's been discussed ad naseum over the last two years, but BTS has explained their position on the player "adopting units" or something similar. Their position makes sense to me anyway.

For more info on their POV just search with the word "campaign" and the author "Big Time Software". Lots of good discussion on the topic. You may be able to see their point.

Cheers.

[This message has been edited by Phoenix (edited 01-05-2001).]

[CATguy]

There was a good size Italian army in Russia. Defeated near Stalingrad and virtually eliminated there...

[CATguy]

There was a good size Italian army in Russia. Defeated near Stalingrad and virtually eliminated there...

[Pvt.Tom]

Don't forget about the Romanians, they played a big part in Stalingrad also, the main Russian attack came through them, of course with only 37mm AT guns how could they stop T34 tanks? That will make a tough battle in CM2.

Pvt.Tom

[This message has been edited by Pvt.Tom (edited 01-05-2001).]

[Pvt.Tom]

Don't forget about the Romanians, they played a big part in Stalingrad also, the main Russian attack came through them, of course with only 37mm AT guns how could they stop T34 tanks? That will make a tough battle in CM2.

Pvt.Tom

[This message has been edited by Pvt.Tom (edited 01-05-2001).]

[B M Deleted]

That's right Cat, big Italian army near Stalingrad. Specifically, if I recall correctly, the Italian 8th Army. I remember someone telling me on this forum, (who is a first generation Italian) That his granparents friends were worried about recieving news from the front, those who were in the Italian 8th Army

[B M Deleted]

That's right Cat, big Italian army near Stalingrad. Specifically, if I recall correctly, the Italian 8th Army. I remember someone telling me on this forum, (who is a first generation Italian) That his granparents friends were worried about recieving news from the front, those who were in the Italian 8th Army

[Guest Michael emrys]

In addition to Finns, Rumanians, and Italians, there were also contingents from Hungary, Spain (yeah, that's right, Spain!), and Slovakia.

The SS raised units from Norway, The Netherlands, and France, among others, but whether any of these made it to the Eastern Front someone else will have to say.

Michael

[Guest Michael emrys]

In addition to Finns, Rumanians, and Italians, there were also contingents from Hungary, Spain (yeah, that's right, Spain!), and Slovakia.

The SS raised units from Norway, The Netherlands, and France, among others, but whether any of these made it to the Eastern Front someone else will have to say.

Michael

[patboivin]

I didn't know that Italians were at Stalingrad. Given the way the war turned out for them, maybe they should have stayed in their home country to defend it...

If we are going to include Eastern Block countries, no Eastern Europe CM would be complete without the siege of Sevastopol (I think that was the city I am thinking of), with the twin-rail 800mm Big Bertha.

Kursk. I can't wait for that scenario.

I also can hardly wait for the ASL Hill 621 Scenario, we have the map ready all we need now are the Russian units to put on it.

So will Charles or Steve make the "research trip" to Europe?

[patboivin]

I didn't know that Italians were at Stalingrad. Given the way the war turned out for them, maybe they should have stayed in their home country to defend it...

If we are going to include Eastern Block countries, no Eastern Europe CM would be complete without the siege of Sevastopol (I think that was the city I am thinking of), with the twin-rail 800mm Big Bertha.

Kursk. I can't wait for that scenario.

I also can hardly wait for the ASL Hill 621 Scenario, we have the map ready all we need now are the Russian units to put on it.

So will Charles or Steve make the "research trip" to Europe?

[Guest Michael emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DukeMonty:

1. Some leaders just kicked butt. Troop turnover or not, if the commangin officer can live, you can have a much more efective unit with an expereinced and winning commander.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps. But the casualty rate among company-grade officers in the German army was even higher than the overall rate. I would not be surprised if a similar situation obtained in the Soviet army as well. War tends to eat up junior officers.

Michael

[Guest Michael emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DukeMonty:

1. Some leaders just kicked butt. Troop turnover or not, if the commangin officer can live, you can have a much more efective unit with an expereinced and winning commander.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps. But the casualty rate among company-grade officers in the German army was even higher than the overall rate. I would not be surprised if a similar situation obtained in the Soviet army as well. War tends to eat up junior officers.

Michael

[Major Tom]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Benny Manieri:

That's right Cat, big Italian army near Stalingrad. Specifically, if I recall correctly, the Italian 8th Army. I remember someone telling me on this forum, (who is a first generation Italian) That his granparents friends were worried about recieving news from the front, those who were in the Italian 8th Army<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was either Knaust, or me . My grandmother lived in Northern Italy, and heard all sorts of reports of losses in Russia. The losses in all other fronts were high, but, most were POW (like my Grandfather in Ethiopia!) but in the East they were mostly KIA.

[Major Tom]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Benny Manieri:

That's right Cat, big Italian army near Stalingrad. Specifically, if I recall correctly, the Italian 8th Army. I remember someone telling me on this forum, (who is a first generation Italian) That his granparents friends were worried about recieving news from the front, those who were in the Italian 8th Army<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was either Knaust, or me . My grandmother lived in Northern Italy, and heard all sorts of reports of losses in Russia. The losses in all other fronts were high, but, most were POW (like my Grandfather in Ethiopia!) but in the East they were mostly KIA.

[Skott Karlsson]

You have to remember BTS only had two programmers working full time on CM1. They had some part timers in there for some other things but it was truly a small independent company. Still is. And they only sell via internet. CM is quite an acheivement for such a small company with no brick and mortar shelf space.

CM2 is suppose to take place on the Russian Front from 1941 to 1945 from what I hear. That excludes the 1941 Balkan campaign. The Germans used many troops from its allies. Finnland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Italy, and yes, even some from Spain. I would assume there were some mixture from occupied lands, French, Belgian, Dutch, Danish, Norwegian, Yugoslav, Greek, Poland, and Africa, but these units would be small at best and not really well represented. Although the Vichy French were probably better represented than these other conquered contries.

How much we'll see in CM2 is yet to be seen, but one thing we the gamers can do is once its released we can make battles based on the smaller fights as we can now with CM1 and then post them on the Internet for others to try. That is one of CM greatest gift to its gamers. To make historical lesser known battles that the BTS programmers didnt have the space or time to make.

~Skott Karlsson~

[Skott Karlsson]

You have to remember BTS only had two programmers working full time on CM1. They had some part timers in there for some other things but it was truly a small independent company. Still is. And they only sell via internet. CM is quite an acheivement for such a small company with no brick and mortar shelf space.

CM2 is suppose to take place on the Russian Front from 1941 to 1945 from what I hear. That excludes the 1941 Balkan campaign. The Germans used many troops from its allies. Finnland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Italy, and yes, even some from Spain. I would assume there were some mixture from occupied lands, French, Belgian, Dutch, Danish, Norwegian, Yugoslav, Greek, Poland, and Africa, but these units would be small at best and not really well represented. Although the Vichy French were probably better represented than these other conquered contries.

How much we'll see in CM2 is yet to be seen, but one thing we the gamers can do is once its released we can make battles based on the smaller fights as we can now with CM1 and then post them on the Internet for others to try. That is one of CM greatest gift to its gamers. To make historical lesser known battles that the BTS programmers didnt have the space or time to make.

~Skott Karlsson~

[Grisha]

Well, if you look at German allies and rank them by numbers, it would be:

1. Romania

2. Hungary

3. Italy

Finland fought from its own frontline, and after 1941 quit all offensive operations, so I tend to look at them as a special case. The Continuation war was probably mostly an aerial affair until 1944 when the Soviets began offensive operations against Finland.

So, if there are going to be any German allies, then the Romanians have got to be in there.

------------------

Best regards,

Greg Leon Guerrero

[Grisha]

Well, if you look at German allies and rank them by numbers, it would be:

1. Romania

2. Hungary

3. Italy

Finland fought from its own frontline, and after 1941 quit all offensive operations, so I tend to look at them as a special case. The Continuation war was probably mostly an aerial affair until 1944 when the Soviets began offensive operations against Finland.

So, if there are going to be any German allies, then the Romanians have got to be in there.

------------------

Best regards,

Greg Leon Guerrero

[Phoenix]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skott Karlsson:

You have to remember BTS only had two programmers working full time on CM1.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean they managed to clone Charles!!??!!

[Phoenix]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skott Karlsson:

You have to remember BTS only had two programmers working full time on CM1.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean they managed to clone Charles!!??!!

[Antti]

I am going to wait as long as i need to for CM2, BUT, CM2 HAS TO include a LARGE and GREAT stalingrad operation or campaign! That is a request!

------------------

[Antti]

I am going to wait as long as i need to for CM2, BUT, CM2 HAS TO include a LARGE and GREAT stalingrad operation or campaign! That is a request!

------------------

[Skott Karlsson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phoenix:

You mean they managed to clone Charles!!??!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had read an article about Charles Moylan in the read.me section of the February 2001 Computer Gaming World magazine. I guess I misquoted myself on how many people BTS had working/programming for them. In my previous post I was working from memory which apparently was wrong. Here is the question and Charles's answer to it:

CGW: How many people did you have working on Combat Mission, and how long did it take to develope?

CM: Combat Mission had only two full-time people on the project, but there were dozens of part-time contributors, many of whom volunteered. This was a consequence of our limited budget when we started out, but fotunately the wargaming community on the Net really stepped in to help.

The game took about two and a half years from start to scratch to finish. The 3D engine was a pretty massive undertaking, as was the tactical AI (which needed lots and lots of tweaking to the fuzzy logic to make it seem "human") and all the research we did into the armies, vehicles, and weapons.

I should have taken the time and gone back and reread the article before posting my original post. My apologies for any misquotes or offence. Still, one has to admire the dedication and creativity Charles Moylan, and his crew, used in making CM. My hat is off to him/them. Just goes to show that the little guy can still make a difference in this world.

The article can be found in Computer Gaming World, Issue 199, February 2001, Page 34.

~Skott Karlsson~

[Skott Karlsson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phoenix:

You mean they managed to clone Charles!!??!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had read an article about Charles Moylan in the read.me section of the February 2001 Computer Gaming World magazine. I guess I misquoted myself on how many people BTS had working/programming for them. In my previous post I was working from memory which apparently was wrong. Here is the question and Charles's answer to it:

CGW: How many people did you have working on Combat Mission, and how long did it take to develope?

CM: Combat Mission had only two full-time people on the project, but there were dozens of part-time contributors, many of whom volunteered. This was a consequence of our limited budget when we started out, but fotunately the wargaming community on the Net really stepped in to help.

The game took about two and a half years from start to scratch to finish. The 3D engine was a pretty massive undertaking, as was the tactical AI (which needed lots and lots of tweaking to the fuzzy logic to make it seem "human") and all the research we did into the armies, vehicles, and weapons.

I should have taken the time and gone back and reread the article before posting my original post. My apologies for any misquotes or offence. Still, one has to admire the dedication and creativity Charles Moylan, and his crew, used in making CM. My hat is off to him/them. Just goes to show that the little guy can still make a difference in this world.

The article can be found in Computer Gaming World, Issue 199, February 2001, Page 34.

~Skott Karlsson~