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I think I got a bug can somebody confirm it (Please)

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Shatter Senior Member

Shatter

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Ok I started working on a new scenario last night. The problem is that on the right flank which should be out of LOS. The Germans are attacking on this Flank and somehow I keep spotting them on Partial and Full fog. I do have a Crack platoon just on the other side of woods from the area I am speeking of. So maybe they hear the tanks and half-tracks or something, but I have check several times and no unit has LOS to the oncoming German units at this point. So how are these units being spotted???

I will send the scenario and turn to anyone who can help me figure this out.

This is the first time I have posted a possible bug and because I don't like to jump the gun. I just cannot figure this one out. Please help me out.

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Swede Junior Member

Swede

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shatter:

So maybe they hear the tanks and half-tracks or something, but I have check several times and no unit has LOS to the oncoming German units at this point. So how are these units being spotted???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Click on the enemy units and see if it says "Sound Contact". It's pretty common for AFVs to be heard long before your troops can see them. If it's a sound contact, the enemy vehicles are represented by a generic grey vehicle and their locations are only estimated.

[ 04-17-2001: Message edited by: Swede ]

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Shatter Senior Member

Shatter

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Swede:

Click on the enemy units and see if it says "Sound Contact". It's pretty common for AFVs to be heard long before your troops can see them. If it's a sound contact, the enemy vehicles are represented by a generic grey vehicle and their locations are only estimated.

[ 04-17-2001: Message edited by: Swede ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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First thanks for the help.

No the units do not show sound contact. I have been playing CM for a year now, so I am familar with how the game plays. I have made hundreds of scenarios. Just wanted to let you know I am not a newbie. I just changed names after several months so I have been here longer than my profile shows.

This is the first time I have ran into this. There is a large cluster of woods between the oncoming Germans units and my units. So how in the heck can they see them.

I checked every single unit of mine, first checking their LOS and then tried to target these oncoming German units, with each of my units. Result no LOS and no targeting and no fire. So how are these German units being spotted.

I am off to school now. I do have access to a PC at school, so I will be checking on this.

I will not be able to send scenario or turns until I get home from school though.

[ 04-17-2001: Message edited by: Shatter ]

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Shatter Senior Member

Shatter

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Schugger:

Shatter, perhaps this is just the good ol' FOW thingy. Check your FOW setting for this scenario, which might be the solution to your problem.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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I am at school now

As I said before I tested this scenario with both Partial and Full FOW activated. Come on guys I am not a newbie. I know how CM works because I am CM junkie. I know how things should be and this is not how it should be.

I simply would like someone to take a look at this scenario and see what I am talking about.

It will have to wait until later because I am at school right now.

Please no more newbie answer, like check your FOW.

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David Aitken Senior Member

David Aitken

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Ah, this story goes back a while.

Two years ago, when Charles was programming CM, he started having visions of an old gypsy woman in his sleep. He thought it was just one of his teenage fantasies, but the visions became ever more vivid. After several weeks the woman began to speak to him. "Charles!", she croaked. "I know about the game. I know all the detail you have programmed in. The dynamic morale assessment. The fanaticism modifiers."

"Damn", he thought, "I told Steve he could show the Alpha build to his girlfriend, but I wasn't expecting this!"

The gypsy continued. "Charles, I also know about the freemasons, the eccentrics, and the conscientious objectors! I think you're in for trouble assigning the objectors to machinegun teams – that means they won't cause enough suppression and they won't be able to run, and you can't fool the grogs forever – but that's beside the point. Charles, if you have all of this detail, you must also have my kind too! A curse be on you, if I see no soldiers with sixth sense in the game before next month!"

"A freaking deadline??", thought Charles, "Isn't that why we went independent in the first place?"

"Just shut up and do it!!", the old woman retorted. "Oh, and skippable HE would be nice!"

So, whenever you see enemy units you shouldn't be able to, pause a moment to marvel at the amazing depth of the game – you have among your ranks a man with inner sight!

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BloodyBucket Senior Member

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Aitken-

That is prose. If I ever get flamed by you, I hope I have on my asbestos underwear.

Shatter-

I have no freakin' idea why that is happening. I am impressed by your attention to detail, and the fact that you have designed hundreds of scenarios. I have only played with the "Create Scenario" function. Can you shift positions slightly to see if the situation changes? How about lowering troop quality on the observing side? I think that the only way to find out is by changing variables.

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Abbott Senior Member

Abbott

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken:

Ah, this story goes back a while.

Two years ago, when Charles was programming CM, he started having visions of an old gypsy woman in his sleep. He thought it was just one of his teenage fantasies, but the visions became ever more vivid. After several weeks the woman began to speak to him. "Charles!", she croaked. "I know about the game. I know all the detail you have programmed in. The dynamic morale assessment. The fanaticism modifiers."

"Damn", he thought, "I told Steve he could show the Alpha build to his girlfriend, but I wasn't expecting this!"

The gypsy continued. "Charles, I also know about the freemasons, the eccentrics, and the conscientious objectors! I think you're in for trouble assigning the objectors to machinegun teams – that means they won't cause enough suppression and they won't be able to run, and you can't fool the grogs forever – but that's beside the point. Charles, if you have all of this detail, you must also have my kind too! A curse be on you, if I see no soldiers with sixth sense in the game before next month!"

"A freaking deadline??", thought Charles, "Isn't that why we went independent in the first place?"

"Just shut up and do it!!", the old woman retorted. "Oh, and skippable HE would be nice!"

So, whenever you see enemy units you shouldn't be able to, pause a moment to marvel at the amazing depth of the game – you have among your ranks a man with inner sight!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol!

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Shatter Senior Member

Shatter

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Originally posted by BloodyBucket:

[QB]Aitken-

Shatter

I have no freakin' idea why that is happening. I am impressed by your attention to detail, and the fact that you have designed hundreds of scenarios. I have only played with the "Create Scenario" function. Can you shift positions slightly to see if the situation changes? How about lowering troop quality on the observing side? I think that the only way to find out is by changing variables.

---------------------------------------------

Ok, good suggestion but I am one step ahead of you. I tested the turns in question and I lowered the the values of the units near the cluster of woods, which the Germans are on the other side of.

Result

Vet:units show up about 4 of 5 times

Regular:same

I figure this is due to the Germans taking a different path from time to time.

My question is how is this possible, without LOS???

As I said before I have checked LOS,Targeting,and even manualy targeting with everyone of my units, STILL NO DAMN SOLUTION.

Maybe I could get one of the BTS guys to check this out. I would appreciate it.

I have designed over 100 scenarios and have never noticed this. Some scenarios, I have made do have a similar approach, such as the one I am puzzled by.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention that the cluster of woods that is between the 2 forces, is sloped up in the middle. I did this so none of the American units farther back could go to an upper floor of a building and spot the oncoming Germans. Last I do have a TRP, sort of near the units being spotted, but I know it is not due to the TRP, because units near the TRP don't show until they come out of the road between the cluster of woods, and are pratically on top of the TRP. Besides the units on the right flank that are being spotted without LOS are farther distance away than the units approaching the TRP.

ANY HELP WILL STILL BE APPRECIATED.

[ 04-19-2001: Message edited by: Shatter ]

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Shatter Senior Member

Shatter

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo:

If you mail the stuff to me at

Jarmo.J.Laakso@sci.fi

I'd like to check it up tonight after work.

Not that I'm any kind of authority or nothin..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Thank god for Jarmo,

I have been waiting all day for someone to say just that.

I will send the scenario and the turn I am refering to.

Scenario on the way.

One more thing, I am not finished with the scenario, so no oppinions just yet.

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Shatter Senior Member

Shatter

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BloodyBucket:

Ok, sign me up. Send it to danedwards45@NOSPAMhotmail.com.

I am also not an expert.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

--------------------------------------------

On the way

As I explained to Jarmo, the scenario is not completely finished so, no oppinions yet.

Thanks for the help

[ 04-19-2001: Message edited by: Shatter ]

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Jarmo Senior Member

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Well I took a look at the file and I sure can't figure out what causes the spotting. No way can any unit see them in the depression behind so much tall pines.

What makes it even stranger is, that after passing the "spotting area" the vehicles turn into location markers. As if someone did in fact see them.

Is it possible to check the FOW settings for the ongoing game? It looks as if the setting would be partial FOW, and a sound contact would gives out the exact info...

IIRC there was a bug that turned the FOW off, but it was supposedly squashed a way back.

I'm not a FOW expert as I've yet to play without FFOW... smile.gif

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Shatter Senior Member

Shatter

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pak40:

I'll try to figure it out for you..

send it to jroland2@home.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

--------------------------------------------

I am at school now, I can send it in a couple hours.

BloodyBucket: I thought I sent it to you as well. Did you check out the problem???

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Shatter Senior Member

Shatter

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Pak 40:

It is on the way.

The whole problem I have with what ever is going on in this scenario, is the fact that, the German plan of attack is (or route) given away. I thought if first time players, play this scenario, they would be suprised that the Germans had flanked them so early. But now this and I just cannot figure it out.

[ 04-19-2001: Message edited by: Shatter ]

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Shatter Senior Member

Shatter

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo:

Well I took a look at the file and I sure can't figure out what causes the spotting. No way can any unit see them in the depression behind so much tall pines.

What makes it even stranger is, that after passing the "spotting area" the vehicles turn into location markers. As if someone did in fact see them.

Is it possible to check the FOW settings for the ongoing game? It looks as if the setting would be partial FOW, and a sound contact would gives out the exact info...

IIRC there was a bug that turned the FOW off, but it was supposedly squashed a way back.

I'm not a FOW expert as I've yet to play without FFOW... smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Jarmo for checking it out.

I usually play with FFOW as well. Even when FFOW is on the Germans are being spotted. Yes it is a little different than PFOW, first German units show up as sound contact, then change to actual info of the unit, at a location that still should be out of LOS of my troops. I just sent the latest test I had performed, which did happen to be PFOW.

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Shatter Senior Member

Shatter

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Well I guess this will remain one of the unknown mysteries of CM.

To bad, because now my new scenario is crap, with this strange occurance that takes place.

I had put a good amount of time into it.

[ 04-20-2001: Message edited by: Shatter ]

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Olle Petersson Senior Member

Olle Petersson

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Comming to think of it; I have noticed something similar to this sometime.

I had a US arty observer somewhere near the Western map edge, and wanted to drop arty in a depression near the Nort-East corner of the map (a suspected enemy assembly area).

This point was of course out of sight, with hills and woods inbetween.

Still I noticed I was able to trace a LOS to a small area very close to that corner of the map, and get a arty response time as if using a TRP (which I didn't)...

Haven't tried if this is reproducable on games in general though.

Cheers

Olle

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