Sergei Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 There are several things about Operations that I don't understand. These things are difficult to design, because the manual doesn't tell you enough. For instance, every time you change the attack direction or map size, all unit positions are defaulted (unless they are locked?). Pretty nice to learn AFTER you've deployed two battalions into zones, huh? Also, until very recently I didn't know under what circumstances the bn, rgt, div reinforcements showed up. Now I've been told that apparently it depends on the force ratios. I haven't read the original post though. And I really don't understand the way frontlines and no-man's-land are handled in static operations. I was testing with an operation of mine to see how it works. I set NML as 160m, then tested by not moving any of the troops during the first battle, instead making cease fire. Closest any of the troops were to each other was 400 metres, yet the attacker's deployment zone jumped to connect with the defender's zone - the defender's zone started just at the front of the defending troops, while the attacker's zone started 400 metres from how far his forces had been. WTF? :mad: Please tell me there is some logic here, or that in CMAK this will be corrected! Anyway, as the topic suggests, you should post here tidbits you know about Operations (or links to earlier threads) that you think other designers should be aware of. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Yup, Bn, Rgt and Div reserves are dependant on force ratios on map at the start of the next battle. I think it's something like Bn 1.2:1 Rgt 1.4:1 Div 1.6:1 But I haven't checked for a while. Setup zones aren't the best, but they make more sense if you actually move troops about. They also depend on battle type. It could be that no man's land only really works if it is actually contested Advance is the simplest - any enemy overtaken by your front line are returned to their setup zones Assault is a little more complicated, and depends on where your force has got to on the map - it averages out your front line position (High value troops in the rear do you no favours here) and then puts salients in for local gains, depending on what value of troops you have holding it. You can also have troops cut off in front of your lines. Static is much the same, except the battlefield doesn't move about. Troops left in top floors, vehicles or too close together at the end of the battle are moved out for the next setup phase. Obviously this can be annoying if you have a hardpressed strong point in a large building... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Some response... For instance, every time you change the attack direction or map size, all unit positions are defaulted (unless they are locked?). Pretty nice to learn AFTER you've deployed two battalions into zones, huh?There are a lot things you can't change after the deployment of units on the map without messing up the set-up. Try to decrease the map size for example... Also, until very recently I didn't know under what circumstances the bn, rgt, div reinforcements showed up. Now I've been told that apparently it depends on the force ratios. I haven't read the original post though.If you want to give the player these reinforcements you need to have a lot of casualties... on my experience with this system. And I really don't understand the way frontlines and no-man's-land are handled in static operations. I was testing with an operation of mine to see how it works. I set NML as 160m, then tested by not moving any of the troops during the first battle, instead making cease fire. Closest any of the troops were to each other was 400 metres, yet the attacker's deployment zone jumped to connect with the defender's zone - the defender's zone started just at the front of the defending troops, while the attacker's zone started 400 metres from how far his forces had been. WTF? Please tell me there is some logic here, or that in CMAK this will be corrected!Did you use a Battle Window ? The engine always try to split the map in 2 parts (axis & allied) after the 1st battle of the static operation when you use a 'battle window'. It doesn't matter if the attacker gained enough ground, it just 'give it away without a fight'. Nils [ November 07, 2003, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: eichenbaum ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 Originally posted by eichenbaum: The engine always try to split the map in 2 parts (axis & allied) after the 1st battle of the static operation when you use a 'battle window'.No, it was a 'static' operation, all taking place on the same map. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 9, 2003 Author Share Posted November 9, 2003 I've found out that the No Man's Land works something like this: the main line is defined just like in other operations from one side of map to the other, and the distance from one Main Line to the other is the size of the NML. But troop concentrations within NML can create a deployment zone of their own (or a situation of being out of supply if there are too little troops there), and these can be quite a lot closer to enemy deployment zones - even right next to them. It is a good idea to warn players of this feature in the briefing of a static operation, then, because otherwise they might think that the enemy starts at least 80 metres away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 IIRC It might happen that the btn and rgt reserves appear in the same battle. If one side got a really severe trashing. Note that units outside or moved back to the setup zones are not supplied. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 18, 2003 Author Share Posted November 18, 2003 Originally posted by Scarhead: Note that units outside or moved back to the setup zones are not supplied.IOW units that start the setup phase outside setup zones. Has anyone noticed what is required for behind-the-lines units to gain their own zone (and thus getting resupply)? A certain troop density, no nearby enemies or how? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Originally posted by Sergei: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scarhead: Note that units outside or moved back to the setup zones are not supplied.IOW units that start the setup phase outside setup zones. Has anyone noticed what is required for behind-the-lines units to gain their own zone (and thus getting resupply)? A certain troop density, no nearby enemies or how? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Originally posted by Scarhead: IIRC It might happen that the btn and rgt reserves appear in the same battle. If one side got a really severe trashing. Note that units outside or moved back to the setup zones are not supplied. Gruß Joachim I could be wrong, but I believe that this is how it used to be. In CMBB, each slot is released one by one, i.e. even if you set several slots to e.g. battalion reserve, only the first will be released for a given battle. However, my memory is a little fuzzy... Personally, I love operations, and I think it's one of the undervalued features of CM. Granted, the manual isn't all too detailed about it, and that's partly by design and partly by omission. From my experience with making ops there are two main things to keep in mind for a successful ops design - "test-a-lot", and "make-small-ops". Martin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 19, 2003 Author Share Posted November 19, 2003 Originally posted by Joachim: IMHO attackers do not get zones.By experience, I can tell that they do (I just recently played a static op. as an attacker). But there are no "vanguard" zones in advance operations, only in static or assault. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 This just in... The computer looks at the relative strengths of the two sides after each battle. If one side is doing poorly, the reserves may be released. The threshold at which a reserve unit is released depends on its type. Battalion reserves aren't that hard to trigger, i.e. you don't have to be doing too badly to receive these. But divisional reserves are given only when things are going quite badly. Attacker gets reserve if relative strength to defender is below... 1.8:1 Battalion 1.4:1 Regimental 1.0:1 Division Defender gets reserve if relative strength to attacker is below... 1:2 Battalion 1:3 Regimental 1:4 Division 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 And if you happen to playing an operation where you attack a fort but don't fully control the fort by the end of the first battle, the enemy setup zones will be adjacent to yours. Good point about including that info in the briefing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Industrializer Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Here is another question: Is there any way I can influence the reinforcements arriving battle2+ ?? I know I can't set them up like the on map units but I at least would like to create 3 setup zones and devide the freshly arrived reinforces among these zones. Possible ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Not possible in an operation Industrializer. Would be nice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Originally posted by Industrializer: Here is another question: Is there any way I can influence the reinforcements arriving battle2+ ?? I know I can't set them up like the on map units but I at least would like to create 3 setup zones and devide the freshly arrived reinforces among these zones. Possible ? Next best thing is using 3 reinforcements slots appearing in the same battle. You might get lucky and they are spread out. But you can't influence where they appear. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manstein22 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Next best thing is using 3 reinforcements slots appearing in the same battle. You might get lucky and they are spread out. But you can't influence where they appear. I made the experience in a newly designed operation that a locked to map and a divisional reinforcement arrived in the same area only a few meters seperated Manstein22 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 You can tie reinforcements to map locations such that when the battle progresses to such a location the reinforcemnts are triggered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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